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Intenditore

An open letter to MAXON CEO McGavran

Do you feel Maxon is taking an Adobe route?  

70 members have voted

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  1. 1. Do you feel Maxon is taking an Adobe route?

    • Yes
      59
    • No
      11


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 I love Cinema 4D but honestly I may have looked elsewhere if they hadn’t bought Redshift.  R21 is nice but the lack of a big much needed feature or two is really disappointing. And the lack of any respect for their Studio MSA customers during this transition....but I still renewed and now I just want to see development pick up for both C-4D and Redshift and the “seamless integration”.  There is just so much untapped awesomeness there. And yeah I sure hope they do release some big long awaited features.. I think it would help everything. I still can’t believe xpresso hasn’t been updated.  Development needs to pick up.. I don’t even care if I don’t get the features for awhile.  Will be interesting to see how I’m feeling next August

 

 

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4 hours ago, Adrien said:

I don't buy the argument  that one could easily switch to Blender. 

C4D is by far the most intuitive program, and R21 just got even better with all the little adjustments. And the Mograph toolset is far ahead. 

Well, switching in 3D has a learning curve but the concepts are the same. I hated Blender every time the last 10 years I tried it. Surprisingly Blender 2.8 made huge changes in all areas needed and it – for the first time – feels like a serious piece of pro-software. Hell, they even abanondend their bone-headed select-with-rightclick with a user-choice.

And ironically, Blender 2.8 came out the day, when R21 was introduced.

To your last point: MoGraph is far ahead now, but with Maya it shows it’s possible to put some steam behind features to go head to head with MAXON.

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7 minutes ago, Macgyver said:

Well, switching in 3D has a learning curve but the concepts are the same. I hated Blender every time the last 10 years I tried it. Surprisingly Blender 2.8 made huge changes in all areas needed and it – for the first time – feels like a serious piece of pro-software. Hell, they even abanondend their bone-headed select-with-rightclick with a user-choice.

And ironically, Blender 2.8 came out the day, when R21 was introduced.

To your last point: MoGraph is far ahead now, but with Maya it shows it’s possible to put some steam behind features to go head to head with MAXON.

fully agree. Blender is catching up fast and Mograph is no longer Cinema's exclusive property. But after playing with R21 for a few hours, I remain convinced that C4D is still ahead in terms of ergonomy although Blender is now breathing down MAXON's neck. 

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1 minute ago, Adrien said:

[…] I remain convinced that C4D is still ahead in terms of ergonomy

They are working hard to destroy that, too. Look at the help-system thread: 

 

 

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Just now, Macgyver said:

They are working hard to destroy that, too. Look at the help-system thread: 

 

yes I'm super upset. One of the 1st things I noticed when opening R21...I don't get it. Everybody loved this feature. So convenient... 

 

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Thanks Intenditore for this letter,

 

I couldn't have put it into words better myself. Not in English anyway:)

 

which surprises me is that the customers are very reluctant to make demands. Everybody just wants that updated perpetual licenses should not cost more than subscription although they already paid a lot of money to MAXON beforehand. 
Almost nobody dares to demand that redshift be simply integrated into cinema, because "pro render" is not really usable.
I don't know how MAXON sees itself, but I know that I see MAXON differently now. 
Sometimes you don't know what it's good for. When Adobe went subscription only, it was a shock, but they took the pressure from me to update my perpetual license on a regular basis. Since then 6 years have passed. Adobe didn't get any more money from me and meanwhile there is for example with resolve fushion an alternative which fits even better to my needs than after effects and Premiere.
I hope that MAXON will make decisions that will not only enable me to remain a customer, but also enable me to recommend this software to others with a clear conscience. At the moment I doubt that I want to continue my C4D course at the university that I gave last summer semester. 

By the way, I don't think that you should handle your customers as ruthlessly with a 3D program as you can with Photoshop or Illustrator. Photoshop can be learned quickly by anyone, it's not difficult, it's a simple program, but with 3D software it takes years to master it. I doubt that it is possible to create new customers fast enough to replace the departure of old customers (who have been paying reliably for many years, by the way).

 

we will see

Jops

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15 hours ago, Intenditore said:

 

Recently I wrote an extensive list of improvements for C4D, spending my working time and thoughts to have a chance to make it better. Because I love it and wish to it to evolve. And I was sure if I mail it to MAXON, I have a chance to be heard, as our goal is the same.
Now I feel like soon there would be no one to listen to us. Not even considering that, just like Adobe does.

 

 

I would be very much interested in this list. Could you please send it to me?

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>> @3D-Pangel >> 100% agree.

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Guest mbyrne

@DMcGavran

Wow, MAXON has a marketing parrot on the helm. You sir are excellent in alienating people that make your salary.Generic marketing bs is simply not flying with 3D crowd.Your Customer took significant amount of time to write something from despair and you brushed him off with few marketing lines? That speaks volumes

You managed to knockout the perception of MAXON as being good guys,slow in delivey but good guys after all.

What will happen now is mass exodus to Blender and other apps, something from which I doubt MAXON will ever recover, unless it starts delivering features wanted for years. If there won't be new object system, fast viewport, new modeling, new UV, then you will just sink into oblivion as Lightwave did. Mograph is probably keeping you floating but that is pretty much it

 

Last post here, will ask admins to delete my account. Best of luck to all members!

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Folks let's keep things polite, we don't want to close the thread. We encourage discussion, even spirited ones but personal attacks are not allowed. Let's all remember there is a real person behind the post...

 

EDIT:

 

@Mbyrne

 

Account deleted per request


Free C4D trainings from MAXON professional on our youtube channel

 

https://www.youtube.com/c4dcafe

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I'll be honest, I don't have an inherent problem with subscription services if the possibility to buy a perpetual license remains. We have that for now, but let's see how long this lasts.

 

Allegorithmic's (Substance) pricing model is extremely fair, even adjusting to your revenue. You can get the ENTIRE Substance Suite for 300€ which is insane considering how powerful it is, as long as you're an indie / freelancer. Although they got aquired by Adobe, so let's see how long this lasts. They promised it'll stay for the foreseeable future but that's a very... loose definition.

 

By far the biggest problem I have with the new subscription option that MAXON offers is the fact that yes, you get a monthly price, but you have to pay anually, otherwise it get's around 50% more expensive. 50% more money just to have the luxury to rent it when you need it. I think the current monthly price if you get it anually is fair, if it actually was monthly, which it isn't. I do not think it's fair to have a different price for people that want to only rent it for a month. As already stated, Allegorithmic allows you to do that. It doesn't matter for how long you rent the software, you get the same price, billed monthly. And you can even convert your subscription into a perpetual license if you subscribe for long without taking a break.

 

I don't think they will pull a lot of more users (3D for the whole world, right) with their current model. They are just alienating their passionate longtime userbase and for newbies it's still too expensive. Why they still don't offer a "personal learning version" or something a long the lines is beyond me. Even with reduced featureset, THAT would pull in users.

 

Regarding Blender: I think a lot of companies are severely underestimating Blender now. The new version is WAY more userfriendly than it was before and nothing beats free, especially if you just want to find out if you even like 3D. And if they do, they already started Blender and have their basics there. So why switch? I personally know two people that use Blender and it was extremely hard to convince them to even give the C4D demo a try. I recommended it to them because I know how artist and userfriendly C4D is, even compared to the new Blender 2.8.

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Captive C4D user here - can't consider alternatives at the moment. Since my Studio MSA renewal date is mid-year, I converted to a new 2-year subscription for about the same cost as a 1-year MSA. But long-term, it is clear I may not be able to rely on MAXON. I absolutely need a Plan B, so the goal for the next two years will be to get up to speed with Blender. Currently, it is still not my cup of tea, but the integrated VFX and NLE features are really intriguing. If Blender continues to innovate at the current pace, there are serious doubts whether I'll renew in 2 years. MAXON will need to make some blockbuster improvements to keep my business. 

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