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Intenditore

An open letter to MAXON CEO McGavran

Do you feel Maxon is taking an Adobe route?  

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  1. 1. Do you feel Maxon is taking an Adobe route?

    • Yes
      59
    • No
      11


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  • 15 hours ago, blutz said:

     

    I would be very much interested in this list. Could you please send it to me?

    It's wonderful to hear that 🙂

    I tried to send you a message, but the system tells me my in-forum mail if overfilled and I can't write to anyone. So let me please attach the doc here

    It's a brief list of about every problem or flaw I stumbled upon in Cinema 4D and some of my thoughts on how they could be solved or improved. + Some new concepts might be useful. If you need a vision of detailed solutions to some things, let me know.

    C4D_IMPROVEMENT_SUGGESTIONS.rtf

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    4 hours ago, Intenditore said:

    Adam, if it suits your particular needs, I'm glad, but this doesn't mean it's right nor good for everybody else

    of course nothing will ever suit everyone. but also what often happens is a solution will suit 95% but the 5% are the ones making all the noise and complaining and crying bloody murder and the sky is falling.

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    5 minutes ago, adamfilip said:

    of course nothing will ever suit everyone. but also what often happens is a solution will suit 95% but the 5% are the ones making all the noise and complaining and crying bloody murder and the sky is falling.

    In my experience, the subscription model is rather liked by 5%. The rest endures it or keeps hands off.
    The merchants of big agencies love it, of course, and those who could not afford the software with the purchase model. So rather hobbyists or users in the small budget area.

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    7 hours ago, Intenditore said:

    It's wonderful to hear that 🙂

    I tried to send you a message, but the system tells me my in-forum mail if overfilled and I can't write to anyone. So let me please attach the doc here

    It's a brief list of about every problem or flaw I stumbled upon in Cinema 4D and some of my thoughts on how they could be solved or improved. + Some new concepts might be useful. If you need a vision of detailed solutions to some things, let me know.

    C4D_IMPROVEMENT_SUGGESTIONS.rtf 9.43 kB · 9 downloads

     

    You might want to run a spell check on your list..

     

    Surprised you didn't list a proper symmetry modelling mode. That's probably the number one short coming with C4D's modelling toolset.

    What about UV tool enhancements? Nothing much listed yet Cinema 4D has one of the worst UV toolsets out there. That said, they have stated they are working on UV tools but it's taking a life time. Just shows you how bad they are /  how out of date they are.

     

    Other things not listed: Particles. Thinking Particles is way out of date. My guess is MAXON has thrown in the towel with Particles since XPartciles does such a good job. Pyrocluster needs an update. What about an update for Sketch and Toon?

     

    Then of course Cinema 4D's performance with lots of objects is still an issue isn't it? One reason for the core rewrite. XPresso isn't multi-threaded.

     

    One issue with Cinema 4D is it still has a modular structure underneath the hood. For example different things (modules) have their own selection tools, symmetry tools etc. 

     

    Got to say it's refreshing to see MAXON's CEO and Product Manager posting and responding here. The Product Manager has posted before but the previous management now retired were missing in action.

     

    Nigel / 3DKiwi

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    Thanks for the detailed feature list.  We will review and compare to stuff we are actively working on.   From a first read many are nice small enhancements.   I can assure you we haven't thrown in the towel on any features.  We are hard at work on the next release.  

    Cheers

    Dave

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    Thanks for the list. Very interesting. I will need some time to dig into this list.

     

    @Nigel: Non of the lists I get are complete. There is always stuff missing. Or not missing, as such lists are mostly very personal and people don't use certain parts of the software.

     

    Yes, I've occasionally post here. Maybe less than I should, but posting in forums always take a lot of time, as you have to phrase your posts very carefully and think twice on what to write and how to write. But I have a pretty good overview on the forums because I normally read the forums and if I miss something I get pointed at important posts by colleagues.

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  • 6 hours ago, 3DKiwi said:

    What about UV tool enhancements?

    Sorry I've got bad language (actually I'm not native speaker), I used Sublime Text as my programming habit makes me like it much, there's no spell check

    There are definitely some things missing, but I am an animator mainly, and I noticed some problems others don't. You're very true regarding proper symmetry, UV is usually out of my interest and so on.. The most important thing I forgot is preferences migration. If you simply copy old prefs to fresh installation it usually screw things up, for example, if there are new features in the interface they will be hidden, because old layout simply had none of them. This way I could not find Bevel, Tweaking, solo mode and some other things in R17. If you highly customize your setup it takes significant efforts to rebuild it from scratch. It holds back from updating even 😄

    7 hours ago, DMcGavran said:

    We will review and compare to stuff we are actively working on

     

    3 hours ago, blutz said:

    Thanks for the list. Very interesting. I will need some time to dig into this list

    I'm very pleased with your answer 🙂. And I'd be extremely happy if I can really make C4D better and influence it's evolvement.

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    17 hours ago, adamfilip said:

    I am really happy to see the CEO of MAXON in the forum and I really hope negative comments and personal attacks dont stop Dave from visiting and reading the forum.

    I have been using C4D for 12 years with a MSA. I was always hoping MAXON would switch to a subscription model. Im really glad they did.. And personally i dont care about owning a license.. im always online. I always want the latest update and release and never go back to an old version once the new one is released. I also purchased redshift 5 months ago and Im super please MAXON purchased redshift. I am also a long time adobe user and subscriber.. its great. much better then the old system of buying multiple various levels of a license. subscription is so much easier and also easier for my boss to approve $50/-$80 month. versus thousands up front. I did wish R21 had more new features, but I still like what was released.Keep up the Good work Dave, Stick around

    Ummm…..pay for it yourself and you might just feel differently....and your boss must be paying the "per month" plan. because all other plans are billed annually.  Have you even told him about the $720/year plan because if you are using it more than 8 months a year then you are costing your poor boss to pay more.

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    34 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

    Ummm…..pay for it yourself and you might just feel differently

     

    That usually puts things in a completely new perspective.

     

     

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    I don't know David McGavran. It may very well be that he is a really fine guy. And I think he can't do much for the misery he got into. This decision has certainly been made before. And I can also understand that the time is not easy for all MAXON employees. They worked for a year and now they feel so much anger.

    But you should understand that it wasn't your users who started it. This release is so egocentric. All changes serve MAXON first and foremost.

     

    As this is a open letter I ad my bit to it, I thought about if it is worth it, if it makes sense, or if it is pathetic, but I work with cinema for 20 years, My income is dependent on it, as the income of all maxons emplyes is dependent of people buying it. Sorry if this text is a bit clumsy. If MAXON wants more feedback they can get it in German 🙂

     

    There have been times before when I was unhappy with the development of MAXON, and I ranted on the forum about them (for example Team render :).

    But this time it is different. Because this time there are indications for developments that could really force a major change in my business live. A change that I don't want, and a change that MAXON shouldn't want. But a change that I proved to be willing to do if forced.

     

    So Dave I am sure you have plenty of information about the situation of Cinema 4D from a MAXON perspective. I will try to explain the long term customer perspective. Of course this is my personal view on things, but I think many of the colleges that I work with feel somehow similar.

     

    Many years ago the MSA was forced on us. Well of surely there always was a perpetual license, but it was quite a bit more expensive. MAXON told us that they needed a steady stream of income to be able to develop longer term features and under the hood developments. People where unhappy, because they had to pay before they knew the features of the release they where paying for. Many sad „MAXON will not need to work hard and develop new features, because it already has our money“ MAXON said „we are under more pressure then before, because we have to deliver on expectations“. That sounds familiar right?

     

    Customers wanted features like water simulation and so on. MAXON said. we have to first program a new core to delver that. So customers where patient with quite some mediocre releases and awaited the version with the many new features they paid for in front.

     

    Even though there where some nice features added the last 5 years, Many got the impression, that the competition was outperforming MAXON. We knew that this was because of the new core of course.

     

    When Adobe switched to CC. A lot of people where upset. First they hoped it would not be to bad, or a uproar of the long time customers would change anything, but … well.

    Autodesk switched and users that didn't like that switched to C4D.

    Even a lot of people that use CC don't really like to get forced to subscribe. But of course there are always some people that enjoy being forced and that is fine 🙂

     

    Last year the MSA became more expensive and when a Adobe employee got CEO at MAXON people predicted: They will force us, they will take stuff from us they will go subscription.

     

    And that is what happened:

    MSA is not good enough any more, Team render gets limited and the only chance to plan our expenditure for the next years and to be save to be part of development is to subscribe, as we don't get any real official information about perpetual future („we intend to publish, but we don't know a price“) .

    MAXON tries to persuade us to give away our R21 perpetual license (that was worth some 3000€, before subscription) for 20% subscription costs for two years (I don't have the numbers, but I think it is less then 400€ ?!)

     

    So all this is quite Adobish.

     

    MAXON invested heavily in the development of the new licensing and activation.

    It's not as if the program has no weaknesses otherwise. Somehow it seems to me that preparations are being made all the time to start the developement of the features that users really want in a future that is getting further and further away.

    Was it really the most important thing now to change the help system? Wasn't there anything else that needed development time more urgently?

     

    I am sorry If I am doing MAXON people wrong, I am shure they worked a lot last year, but all I heard this release was: We are sorry, that you are not happy with the offer, but this helps us streamline..... that makes it easear for us …. that optimizes the cashflow for us.

     

    It was not about the customers this time...

     

    people get the impression, that they paid their MSA for many years to finance the development of the new core and now, that you can see the first results of it (Timeline) that they have to switch to subscription if they want to profit.

     

    And reducing the number of TR clients feels like the desperate need to press a bit more money out of your customers. Its like a restaurant reduces the quality of their ingredients to make a profit.

     

    There are so many things that upset your customers in this release that one could get the impression that it is on purpose.

     

    I cant' understand why Adobe doesn't want my money. But there for I give it to someone else.

    I hope MAXON wants my money.

     

    Best regards

    Jops

     

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