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ingvarai

How to get back the R13-R20 GUI look?

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I am sure many like the new super-dark GUI in R21.
I myself get a headache out of it. What is the easiest way to get the previous look and feel back? Other than manually tweaking each and every color, and still not get the very nice GUI that we have had for 8 years or more.. Perhaps someone has done it, and has a preferences file to share?
As it is now, R21 will collect dust on the shelf, and I will use R20. Until I need one of the three new features in R21 😉
-Ingvar

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... What is the easiest way to get the previous look and feel back? ...

 

While I understand your concern (I have the same feeling), I am afraid we'll not be able to get the previous look back. Since the new GUI is based on a completely different implementation, I don't see any other way than tweaking each individual color, etc ...

Not something I am looking forward to do. Hoping someone is smarter than me, and has indeed found a way to go back to the previous look, without all the hassle involved.

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Yeah, I'm not too keen on some of the UI colour changes either… It seems a little too contrasty, not comfortable on the eyes. If I were designing the UI, I would want it to sink into the background a tiny bit more. As a user, I don't want to focus on the UI, it's what you're making in the viewport that should be the main focus…

 

Anyway, I'm afraid I've taken the laborious approach of whenever I notice a UI colour tone that displeases me, I check the value in the preferences against the old value in R20… and change accordingly if necessary. But one of the great things I've always found with C4D is how customisable the interface and commands are.

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I think C4DS is right.  I think the new icons are completely vector based and thus have a theoretical infinite resolution.  It makes them 16k and beyond proof, but it means the old icons are gone.  I work on a 4k screen everyday with c4d and it's great.  Didn't even use the largest icon size.  I'd personally not have to use icons at all, but MAXON didn't put in my keyboard shortcut preview suggestion so it makes it harder to have keyboard shortcuts only.  I'm switching to Blender anyway so it doesn't matter to me.

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Maybe nobody in alfa/beta program use lower resolution monitor than 4k, because on "standard" 1920*1200 resolution it looks worse like R20 UI. (in my opinion)

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51 minutes ago, bezo said:

Maybe nobody in alfa/beta program use lower resolution monitor than 4k

I don't have a 4K monitor, but didn't notice any problem with it I could really criticize that wasn't just personal opinion - looks mostly great to me... sort of like a darker, nicer version of Modo, but I do also agree with comments I've seen noting that meshes are sometimes harder to see now...

 

And it is doing my head in a bit that everything's in different places 🙂 And shortcuts keep changing, so iI keep having to put them back...

 

CBR

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I tell you what I wish someone would develop… a plugin that allows you to bring over personal shortcut keys into new versions. I used to copy over the shortcuttable.res from the prefs folder, but I stopped doing that since it was probably a bad idea as things change from version to version. On the one hand it's a pain to have to re-insert all your main shortcut keys, but on the hand it does give you the opportunity to reassess whether you need or use certain keys any longer.

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  • I found out how to do it - sort of.
    In the folder C:\Users\YOURNAME\AppData\Roaming\MAXON\MAXON Cinema 4D R21_64C2B3BD\prefs

    there probably  (not always) is a file named dark.col
    Tuck this away or rename it to dark.col.org, then replace it with a similar from R20. You will then get several errors on R21 startup. But when these are corrected, you get a sort of R20 look.
    I did the correction, and I have attached a file which works. Now - still some colors need to be tweaked.

    Question:
    Does anyone know what the color of objects / meshes is called? Like when you insert a cube in the editor, the color of the cube? 

    To MAXON:
    After all these years, just changing the user interface like this without givings us an option to revert to the old trusted one, that is unacceptable. I literally get a headache out of this none contrast washed out black GUI.
    To replace all colors by hand is waaaaay too cumbersome for me. 


    -Ingvar

    dark.col

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    On 9/8/2019 at 9:41 AM, Fastbee said:

    I think the new icons are completely vector based and thus have a theoretical infinite resolution. 

     

    Well... search for a file named interface_icons_2x.tif in your installation directory and see for yourself. No vector based icons here.

     

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    On 9/8/2019 at 6:34 PM, benek said:

    I tell you what I wish someone would develop… a plugin that allows you to bring over personal shortcut keys into new versions. I used to copy over the shortcuttable.res from the prefs folder, but I stopped doing that since it was probably a bad idea as things change from version to version. On the one hand it's a pain to have to re-insert all your main shortcut keys, but on the hand it does give you the opportunity to reassess whether you need or use certain keys any longer.

    hmm, what's your issue with copying the shortcuttable? I just did that for R21 (as I did it for many years and many versions) and it seems fine to me.

    Of course, new shortcuts for functions that have just been introduced for the R21 will not be there. Like for example

      IDM_UVEDIT_UVGIZMO    TARGET_59500        CTRLCMD+"T";

    But adding these (or adding more suitable shortcuts in one's personal pattern) seems much easier to me than recreate the hundreds of shortcuts I already assigned.

    (Also, if you have assigned shortcuts to scripts you may need to recreate those. I am not sure how C4D assigns the internal script IDs (as a script does not come with a constant plugin ID), I once ran into an issue with these.)

     

    Remarks:

    1. The shortcuttable is a readable file, you could put it into an editor and do a compare. Unfortunately a lot of commands are named like PLUGIN_CMD_4650004764 instead of being human-recognizeable.

    2. The original shortcuttable now seems to reside in the installation directory under resource\modules\c4dplugin\c4d_shortcuts.res (Windows). This is a new name for the file, and there seem to be some changes in content as well (CTRLCMD?) but the R19 shortcuttable.res copied into the prefs directory in the Home so far serves well.

    3. It might be possible to write a plugin to manage shortcuts from these files. But as it is just a one-time effort per release, I don't see that anybody would pay for that, and as a programming exercise it's just too much effort.

     

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    14 hours ago, ingvarai said:

    I found out how to do it - sort of.
    In the folder C:\Users\YOURNAME\AppData\Roaming\MAXON\MAXON Cinema 4D R21_64C2B3BD\prefs

    there probably  (not always) is a file named dark.col

     

    Well-l-l...

     

    The way C4D organizes its interface is a bit complicated. You may want to start with the installation directory and look how it's set up.

    1. Under resource\modules\c4dplugin\icons you will find a .tif that contains the majority of the function icons. This file is interface_icons_2x.tif. There is also a text file interface_icons.txt that contains the function IDs the icons are assigned to; partially with cutouts.

    2. Under resource\modules\c4dplugin\schemes there are directories for every scheme that C4D provides. Namely, Light and Dark. Within these, you find the .col file (with the basic colors for interface and viewport), the .res file (which tells C4D at what coordinates to find certain graphic elements), and finally the images with the graphic elements themselves, normal.tif, focus.tif and disabled.tif. These provide button snippets, borders, arrows, checkboxes, scrollbars and other things that are not icons and/or can be resized.

    3. Note that the R21 has these three files also in a double resolution version marked as "x2". I suppose these are for the hi-res monitors.

    4. Also note that the R21 has a new format for the files with two layers, whereas the R19 was working with transparencies. I could get the R19 files to work but no guarantee for the future (also, I didn't yet test it in depth).

    5. Now, if you want to build your own scheme, that will go into the Home directory, not the installation directory: Cinema4D V21_xxxxxxxx\library\schemes

    6. Copy the scheme you want to start with from the installation directory (either Light or Dark) by copying the full directory thus named, and put it into the schemes subdirectory of the Home directory. Rename the directory, the .res and the .col file appropriately - the new scheme will appear under that name in the Preferences dialog. Now you have a clean setup for a new scheme. Always work in this copy, and never change the files in the installation directory.

    7. If you need to modify the icons (for example if you want to modify the background color - several icons appear directly on the background and must have sufficient contrast) you can copy the interface_icons_2x.tif and the interface_icons.txt directly into your scheme directory (e.g. Dark2). The original Light scheme does this for example.

    8. If you are reusing a scheme from a previous C4D version: There is NO GUARANTEE that the graphic element files are still usable. There may be new elements needed, or old elements deprecated.

    9. If you modify the colors: Some colors are just references to other colors. Some colors depend on each other (e.g. text color and textfield background color). There is no tool that shows the dependencies in an easy way, or would show all GUI elements that are using a certain color, icon, or graphic snippets. It's easy to get lost in the plethora of settings.

    10. You can theoretically edit the .col file with a text editor. This will help you seeing what colors you changed and what colors were in the other version's .col file. However: Always start out with a .col file from the current version's scheme to make sure all needed colors are defined. Other than with the shortcuttable.res file, missing an entry will cause errors.

    11. If you decide to NOT edit the .col file manually, but use the Preferences dialog, upon exiting the program a new .col file under the scheme's name will be created in the prefs folder in your Home directory. This has the advantage that you keep the original color settings in the schemes directory. Comparing these two files is also the only way to find what colors you have changed, because C4D will not just store the changed colors in prefs, but the full set. If you want, you can use the prefs version to overwrite the schemes version but I'm not sure whether this is advisable.

    12. Should you ever get into a situation where C4D crashes on start because of that, shows error on start, or gives you a totally unreadable interface, first try deleting the .col file from the prefs folder; if that doesn't help delete the current scheme folder from the schemes directory.

     

    Now have fun ruining your GUI 😁

     

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  • 2 hours ago, Cairyn said:

     

    The way C4D organizes its interface is a bit complicated.

    ...
    Now have fun ruining your GUI 😁

    Hi Cairyn!
    Thanks a lot for this!
    As a matter of fact, I now have a R21 user interface I am very satisfied with. I have neither touched the icons, nor any real colors. It is just the grey-scale I have tweaked, not the gorilla. I did this, both by playing with the preferences editor, and by editing the dark.col file in a text editor. I started by copying over the dark.col file from R20, edited out entries that cause R21 to crash on startup, and then using the Preferences editor to fine tune the gray shades.
    I spent several hours on this, in fact a whole day. 
    Now - the final step was to customize my new.c4d project which has to be saved to the same folder where cinema4d.exe resides.
    I set the Default object color to Gray-Blue

    defaultobjectcolor.png.60bab1f618beb3a790d4935262de7809.png


    And voila!!!
    I now have a super duper user interface almost the same as R13-R20, and with all the new features of R21.
    The reason I put so much emphasizes on this is that I just cant stand the new darkroom washed out poor contrast user interface. For me it was love at first sight when I fired ut C4D in 2012. Not the least because of the GUI. So I want to stay with this familiar workplace for me. I have 1920 x 1200 monitors, not 4K.
    The final dark.col file is attached, for those who want to try themselves. You can always revert back by pressing the Reset button under Preferences.

    -Ingvar

    dark.col

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