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hikarubr

C4D EDUCATIONAL LICENSES: WHY SO COSTLY?

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  • On 10/7/2019 at 7:03 AM, DMcGavran said:

    Hi All,

     

    Here is the official answer.    We haven't changed anything here yet.  We are hiring and building a team to work on an educational strategy.    The easy bit:

     

    Every student/teacher can get a few version.  It will renew as long as you are a student.   This is a full non limited version.


    For schools, they aren't all the same.   We want universities to teach and we want to make sure they teach the latest version.  So we try to engage with them.  Some schools should pay others should not.  Example being a company that makes money teaching software, should pay for the software they are using.  Other universities are private some are public.  It is a tricky balance so we need to make a plan.   As of now we left things the way they have been.


    Cheers

    Dave

     

    Hi Dave, 

     

    Thanks for your answer and sorry about my late reply (I had to grade the midterms on my classes this week so I was super busy). 

    I'm happy that you're building a new team to work on the educational strategy. 

     

    Having said that, I'm not sure if your reasoning of "a company that makes money teaching software, should pay for the software they are using" makes much sense. 

    I think it would be more interesting for MAXON to become the standard (or one of the standards) in 3D animation and then make money from companies using your software than trying to get money from a few educational institutions. Isn't you new motto "3D for the whole world"? 

     

    With Blender 2.8 on one hand and Maya/3ds Max indie on the other hand, I think the motto is not really being applied by MAXON.

     

    Also, you should check which school you are charging. My school (University of Tampa) is private but it is a non-profit institution (as most good private Universities in the US are). Maybe you should consider not charging non-profits at least.

     

    On my side, we just bought the educational licenses that I asked for and I'll be using Cinema 4D in my intro classes for at least two semesters. 

    I think the students will love it but I still fear for MAXON's and C4D's  future with the current strategy. 

     

    I simply don't see how Cinema 4D can compete having half of the features but charging more than anyone else, including educational institutions.  

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    @DMcGavran

    Just to throw in my 2 cents here as someone who has primarily worked in c4d education for the past 17 years and has worked across numerous training centres in the UK. You need to consider that c4d needs to compete with other apps for the training centre's time, advertising budget and harddrive space. Every training centre needs to teach the big apps to bring in the bulk of their money, MS office, operating systems, the adobe suite, workpress etc. The centre will then have an extended range of apps to teach, this is where your 3D, CAD, music, programming etc come in.

     

    The training centre has to pick from within these, they can't just offer all software and teach it as the classes get booked. For one thing a full software install these days can easily  top 20-50 gigs per app. Multiply that up with everything and you're constantly hitting the 1/2tb SSD caps that a training machine will have. Then also consider the cost of advertising the courses, you need to concentrate on certain apps to break through the noise. Then consider cost, which is the course most likely to turn the training centre a profit; the cost of maintaining the app is a huge incentive as to whether they offer an app at all.

     

    Many apps are free for the training centre, many more are small token administrative costs and arent there to turn a profit for the software house. Last I checked (2018), the uk prices for training centres were going up. To the point where 2 London training centres now use pirated copies, 2 have dropped c4d entirely and now offer just max and maya and a couple more I know are re-evaluating whether they teach it at all. Compounding this is the fact that training centres used to make some extra cash by selling licences at the same time as the course. One of the places I worked at has told me they no longer do this as MAXON uk doesnt consider them worth their time or effort and has slashed their percentage for sales.

     

    IMHO profit training centres should have been treated the same as any government educational institution. They both teach, they both make a profit. The only difference is that one gives you a fancy overrated certificate at the end. Every advert for c4d training is an advert for c4d. Every person taught is a new c4d customer. Plus you're competing with other 3D apps for the training centre's attention.

     

    TLDR; imho education of any sort isn't the area you should be looking to profit from. The profit further down the line from an educated and growing customer base would outweigh anything earnt from the educational institutions.

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    Another thing I would like to add ... there`s a LOT of users who might want to learn Cinema, but aren`t students anymore. SideFX dealt with them by offering first the apprentice version and now the Indie. Modo has the Steam version and now Autodesk has the Indie version, which if you have PayPal, you can pay in instalments interest free, so it's basically £60/month.

     

    Cinema cheapest price which would be the £50/month isn't that as you need to pay one year up-front. Then you need to add Redshift as the default render doesn't really compare. Also add XParticles and a learning capable version of Cinema is at least £150/month. What's the point? The software is good, we all know that, but it pushing itself out of lots of people.

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    On ‎10‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 9:27 AM, hikarubr said:

     

    Also, it is not disrespectful to ask the reasoning behind someone's business model, specially when you are a client. 

    Challenge MAXON's business model?  I would never think of such a thing!  😇

     

    err...maybe not.

     

    While I did not pour through every post of this thread, I do think that a strong case can be made for both charging and not charging for an educational license - the key deciding factory being how long a "free" educational license remains active vs. a "reduced price" educational license.    Imagine these options:

     

    I think right now everyone can get a free 14 day trial license.  If you can prove your are a college student enrolled in a computer animation course  then the following two things happen:

    1. This free license extends to a one-time only period of 3 months (or about the length of an average college course)
    2. If you want to use the license for an additional 3 months, the cost increases to $75 and each additional 3 month block costs the same $75.  For each additional block, you need to revalidate that you are a) a college student and b) enrolled in a computer animation course. 

    The logic is this: The first 3 month block covers the introductory course. This should be free.  Get as many people to actually take a course in C4D.  Should they want to take more advanced courses, then they are charged about the same as a standard text book - which I think is fair and not a undue burden on the student.  I mean, are all text books free?  No.  So why should the software be free.  There is nothing that says MAXON needs to give the software away to every college student but they should at least make it easy/cheap/free for them to step into and consider using the software (thus the first 3 month block is free).  After that introduction, if they find that they have a real aptitude for the software and therefore desire to learn more, then they are more likely and willing to pay for it at that point.  Now, while I am not sure if any college campuses offer full degreed mutli-year program in C4D, this is still a huge 50% discount over the annual subscription program with all the same benefits (Cineversity, updates, etc).

     

    I would infer from Rick Barrett's post that MAXON is looking into something like this with their license server

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    This might work in the US or Europe, but lets say in Brazil this cost is already too much.

     

    I have a friend from Brazil, a Cinema 4D user for 11-years that has a online school and he's switching to Blender to be able to train more people. He's already has more than 100 students for the Blender courses. That could be potentially 100 new Cinema 4D users with the right license options and I'm very aware that there's an huge market of pirate licenses of Cinema 4D in Brazil, which is really unfortunate. I was hoping the 3D for the World would help smooth the entry barrier, but right now ... it's just easier and cheaper to get back into 3ds Max and learn Blender on the side.

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    How is 3DS Max cheaper?  We have free licenses for students as well?  

    Cheers

    Dave

     

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    Hi Dave, I need to apologise. I came here to offer my perspective as a enthusiast/learner of 3D that isn't as school anymore.

     

    So what I meant is for freelancers and Indies. I for one work with Resources in VFX. But I'm also a 3D enthusiast, playing with 3D since 2005 or so. So for me I would love to have a software to do 3D as a hobby for the cheapest possible option. Blender is alright and I support them, but I still feel like it's missing a few things in terms of workflow that Max and Cinema has.

    So for me, I can't classify for a student license, so my options would be Modo for £50/month the full version, the Modo Steam for like £10/month, Blender or Max/Maya for £250/year, which would be £20/month. In comparison, Cinema would cost £95/month and I would need an extra renderer and XParticles, which is +£30/month.

     

    The £55 version of Cinema IF that was a monthly payment and not a full year in advance, I would probably be able to add that. It might seen like I'm being cheap, but that is half the price. Make it a 1-year commitment, but in smaller instalments and with penalty for cancellation, similar to what Adobe does. So at the moment, Max/Maya is cheaper since you get Arnold GPU (just released) on the same £250 bundle.

     

    EDIT:

     

    To add to that ... the old no-save unlimited trial + 42 trial with save ability was a lot better than 14-day trial.

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    1 hour ago, MauricioPC said:

    To add to that ... the old no-save unlimited trial + 42 trial with save ability was a lot better than 14-day trial.

     

     For me demo works fine since it´s release (also updated to last version). It could be because I have also commercial version of R21? Don´t know, but works well for me

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    18 minutes ago, bezo said:

     

     For me demo works fine since it´s release (also updated to last version). It could be because I have also commercial version of R21? Don´t know, but works well for me

    I think they changed that and there’s no more demo but only a trial. Unless it’s hidden or I have gone blind. 🙂

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    13 hours ago, MauricioPC said:

    I think they changed that and there’s no more demo but only a trial. Unless it’s hidden or I have gone blind. 🙂

    I think you are right: my demo of R21 no longer works either and asks me to renew the license. It seems the unlimited time C4d demos are a thing of the past, unfortunately.

    Which I feel is only hurting potential new users of Cinema4D more. It is also no longer possible to keep the demo running at home to train/update/test oneself, and work with C4D at work.

     

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