C4D EDUCATIONAL LICENSES: WHY SO COSTLY?

[hikarubr 33]

Here is a question for MAXON's CEO McGravan: Why are C4D educational licenses so costly? I thought your new motto was "3D for Whole World"? 

 

I have been recently hired as an Assistant Professor of 3D Animation at the University of Tampa (Florida) and I'm revamping their 3D animation curriculum. 

We use Maya  for the 3D animation courses but I suggested using Cinema 4D for the intro classes, because it's more user friendly and I think the students will get the main concepts faster this way (and I'm well versed in both C4D and Maya). 

Then our IT department contacted MAXON and we discovered that 20 C4D seats will cost us $1500, or $75 per seat.

Which seems cheap until you realize that Autodesk gives us all their software for free. 

Now I have an almost impossible battle to convince my department to pay for C4D when we can have Maya for free.

Why not give the C4D educational licenses for free too?  

In a world where Blender 2.8 and  Autodesk educational licenses are free, it makes no sense to charge for C4D educational licenses. 

 

I would love to hear the reasoning for this from someone from MAXON. 

 

[NWoolridge 9]

I’m not from MAXON, but contact MAXON USA and ask for their educational grant application form. 

[Fastbee 213]

Yet another way MAXON is shooting themselves in the foot.  If no one learns how to use c4d no one will every buy c4d.  The educational license should be free.

[bentraje 139]

How many months is the $75? If its 1 year or even 6 months. That's pretty reasonable to me. 

 

While Autodesk is free (and I myself have used a free student version), they have different business model. 
The entry Maya of free but later on recoups it with high subscription price. And since you already know the software, you might as well pay the subscription to save you some time. 

I forgot the proper name here's an old explanation from joelonsoftware.com:
 

Quote

Even better than lock-in is the sneaky version I call stealth lock-in: services which lock you in without your even realizing it. For example, all those new services like PayMyBills.com which receive your bills for you, scan them in, and show them to you on the Internet. They usually come with three months free service. But when the three months are up, if you don’t want to continue with the service, you have no choice but to contact every single bill provider and ask them to change the billing address back to your house. The sheer chore of doing this is likely to prevent you from switching away from PayMyBills.com — better just to let them keep sucking $8.95 out of your bank account every month. Gotcha!

For the Blender, it would be to get many users as possible. Then recoup the cost from the ecosystem of tutorials/plugins. For instance, BlenderMarket gives a percentage to the BlenderFoundation whenever it makes a purchase. Same business model goes to Wordpress, sort of.  I don't discount the good intention of the Blender to provide a free software, but somebody has to pay the bills. 

============================================================

I agree to the argument "Do this feature because Software X is doing this" mostly because it makes the software better but there are some boundaries you have to respect and this includes the business model. 

Sure, you can request MAXON to lower the price but please understand their decision if they don't (due to their business model 
P.S. I use Cinema4D mostly for personal work, Maya and Blender for mostly outsourced work. Just want to disclaim that I'm not really a total MAXON fanboy and I did find the perpetual to subscription a bit disappointing considering that I bought my personal copy of Cinema4D just recently (i.e. this year R20 version). 

 

[RBarrett 154]

For classroom licenses, as Nick mentioned above MAXON does offer grants to educational institutions - you'll want to check that out. A grant can offset much of the sticker cost - and at many US institutions winning a grant is seen as a feather in your cap.

 

We do also offer free student / teacher licenses, though that system is still being integrated with the new MyMaxon accounts. Stay tuned - we should have R21 available soon for students and teachers.

 

-Rick

 

[hikarubr 33]

12 hours ago, bentraje said:

How many months is the $75? If its 1 year or even 6 months. That's pretty reasonable to me. 

 

While Autodesk is free (and I myself have used a free student version), they have different business model. 
The entry Maya of free but later on recoups it with high subscription price. And since you already know the software, you might as well pay the subscription to save you some time. 

Sure, you can request MAXON to lower the price but please understand their decision if they don't (due to their business model 
P.S. I use Cinema4D mostly for personal work, Maya and Blender for mostly outsourced work. Just want to disclaim that I'm not really a total MAXON fanboy and I did find the perpetual to subscription a bit disappointing considering that I bought my personal copy of Cinema4D just recently (i.e. this year R20 version). 

 

Hi Bentrsaje, you totally ignored the context of my post. I'm not buying the licenses for me or my students, the University is buying. The price seems that expensive, as I said, but IT IS EXPENSIVE when the industry standard in 3D, Maya is offered for free and can do way more than Cinema 4D.

 

When you work in a big non-for-profit organization as a University you have a limited amount of political capital to negotiate certain things. MAXON is forcing me to have tons of conversations that I should not have if I want to TEACH their software. I'm LITERALLY creating new costumers for MAXON and they are penalizing me. 

 

If their new motto is 3D for the whole world, why charge for the educational license? It makes zero sense.

[hikarubr 33]

9 hours ago, RBarrett said:

For classroom licenses, as Nick mentioned above MAXON does offer grants to educational institutions - you'll want to check that out. A grant can offset much of the sticker cost - and at many US institutions winning a grant is seen as a feather in your cap.

 

We do also offer free student / teacher licenses, though that system is still being integrated with the new MyMaxon accounts. Stay tuned - we should have R21 available soon for students and teachers.

 

-Rick

 

Guys, you should read the post before answering. I'm not begging for a discount: the price is low enough for my department to buy the licenses needed. 

What I'm trying to do is create a conversation with MAXON about why is this even a thing.

 

Any money that you guys make from educational licenses is offset by the fact that TONS of universities and schools are not gonna be using Cinema 4D in their courses because they have to pay while Maya is free (Blender 2.8 too).

 

Specially because you can have a whole 3D curriculum in Maya without plugins (from Modeling to advanced simulations and scripting) but you can't do the same with Cinema 4D without plugins. So MAXON charges for a software that can only do 50% of what the (free) industry standard does.

 

As I use both Maya and C4D professionally I know for a fact that C4D is the better one for teaching so I asked for the  paid licenses anyway, but this is a conversation that I should not be having. 

 

If MAXON is serious about the "3D for the whole world" motto, the cost of the educational license should be ZERO. As I said in the post above, the schools are literally creating clients for you.  Cinema 4D could, and should, have been much bigger. I always wondered why Cinema 4D is not more popular with students; now I know why!  

 

The whole point of this post is to try to understand MAXON reasoning for this policy.

I actually fear for the future of my favorite 3D software.

 

[bentraje 139]

@hikarubr

RE: you totally ignored the context of my post
I made the post in the context that either the student, teacher or university (all non-profit) buys the license. Either case, I'd still consider it reasonable in this case. 
Again comparing with the Autodesk and Blender, they have a different business model. 

If push comes to shove, you can always go ahead and use Autodesk or Blender. Again, respect MAXON's business model. 

P.S. I meant no offense but try to avoid the whining tone. It doesn't make the case any stronger that what it is. 

[Jops 50]

I had the same Situation in a German university. Of course MAXON can charge for their software what they want, but I don't find it smart, to charge the institutions, that teach your software, considering, that more or less every student I had already had worked with Blender before. If they don't get Cinema4d taught they probably just stick with it.

 

bentraje I don't know what your status is with MAXON. But this is a free forum. And one of it's main purposes is to exchange opinions. That include views about the business model.

I don't think that phrases like "If push comes to shove, you can always go ahead and use Autodesk or Blender " are very helpful (I don't even think for MAXON). 

To Illustrate this as a example I reword it to: "If push comes to shove, you can always go ahead and find a new forum with less whining tone". That doesn't help much right? because if you stay people here will benefit from your answers in future, as MAXON benefits from different opinions about their business model.

 

 no offense meant,

best regards

Jops

[bentraje 139]

@Jops

RE: but I don't find it smart, to charge the institutions, that teach your software
I agree. But it seems like MAXON still got a clout in the DCC market. So, I guess they have their focus elsewhere. 

RE: And one of it's main purposes is to exchange opinions.
Indeed, I am exchanging my opinion, and it was firm: Sure, you can request MAXON to lower the price but please understand their decision if they don't (due to their business model) . 
The OP made his statement. I am made mine. 

RE: I don't think that phrases like "If push comes to shove, you can always go ahead and use Autodesk or Blender " are very helpful
To some degree, it doesn't. But its probably the most truthful.
That's the same argument I made for users that complain the Cinema4D doesn't have much FX tool, use Houdini. 
or Cinema4D doesn't have proper UV tools, use Blender or RizomUV. 

Before I mislead you, those complaints have weight, and also my complaints. I am all for creating Cinema4D a one-stop solution and I have submitted several suggestions. But the current state of the matter, Cinema4D cannot be because Cinema4D has a different focus (i..e Mograph, for instance). 

So that's why if other tools can fit your need, then use it. 

P.S.
I am all for criticism for the better but berating is totally unnecessary. @RBarrett has already made his statement and the immediate reply whines "Guys, you should read the post before answering."? That's a bit disrespectful.
 

[Jops 50]

@bentraje

 

Thanks for your answer.
 

I don't think we're that far apart.

But the way I met Dave McGavran, I don't feel he needs to be protected from criticism. On the contrary, he enjoys controversial discussion.

 

best regards

Jops

[hikarubr 33]

7 hours ago, bentraje said:

@hikarubr
Again, respect MAXON's business model. 

P.S. I meant no offense but try to avoid the whining tone. It doesn't make the case any stronger that what it is. 

 

@bentraje 

Please refrain from using childish insults against me. If you didn't like the thread and have nothing to add, just ignore it.  You are not adding anything to it.

And, by the way, check your dictionary. There is no whining in any of my posts. Unless you consider any constructive criticism of MAXON whining.

 

Also, it is not disrespectful to ask the reasoning behind someone's business model, specially when you are a client.