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cinomadic

No more Feature Requests / Suggestions?

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3 hours ago, Intenditore said:

Despite there is such page, I'm feeling like nobody is reading and nobody is interested in any thoughts from users anymore. I wrote a hefty list of things to consider improving a half of a year back and sent it through: mail, your HR mail, this forum, MAXON FB page, a MAXON employee which has been recently on CGEvent to gather some fresh thoughts and opinions from local community.

What feedback got I? None of it. At all.

It resembles me a story when I tried to push my UX report on Photoshop and it's future through Adobe bureaucracy almost 10 years back, trying to reach the very John Knoll and using my acquaintance with Jaison Levine, and the best answer I had was smth like "we are not interested". So PS hasn't evolved a bit in the direction it should since than.

I don't want MAXON to become the same junk company. Please, no!

 

First of all I do agree that a "thank you for your suggestions" email should at least be sent, even if it is an automated one. 

 

But you need to consider time frames for this type of thing. If you make a suggestion today then it goes into the pool of ideas. These are then looked at over a period of probably a year to decide what to do next. Then development would start. So lets say development started today on a feature for you. You would not see it until September 2023. Since if it starts being developed now then it will not be out for R22. And even if it is started now it might not be finished by the end of this year, which would be the cutoff date for R23 features, to allow documentation and beta testing on it. Which means it won't make it into C4D until R24. But with this subscription change you never know. It may be able to come out somewhere between the traditional R23 and R24 release. Either way, they have an entire team of UX people and product people all working out the next moves. Which is now compounded by the addition of RedShift and RedGiant. And they would also have a backlog of features they already have planned to add that is most likely 3-5 years long before they even get to looking at new things.

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You're right, I understand how complex such projects are and how slow new ideas drift into a way to implementation. However, many of my thoughts were much simpler than those things you may imagine, I consciously don't propose any vastly new features, many of proposals are more like a bugfixes to UI logic which could be fixed with a few lines of code literally.

However, I've got absolutely no answer, despite many of those problems are very annoying and really worth developers' attention.

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@Intenditore if you have never been part of this complex development process then you simply cannot understand the complexity of it and on top of that, for every new feature complexity rises. You would be suprised how much we actually listen. Now, just because you dont see your ideas in, doesn’t mean we do not listen. For UI changes you woud be suprised how complex it can be and why are you so sure your idea should be implemented or that your idea is so good? 🙂 While it might be the best idea ever in your head it doesn’t mean it make sense for majority of users. And I can assure you we all know what Cinema lacks and where Cinema excel. So sometimes, due to compexity, timeframes, deadlines, setbacks etc., development need some more time, which means you need to wait a bit more and thats life, not Maxon being bad guy. Also, there are a lot of beta testers that have been listened for years and now even more than ever before and they constantly have been posting and sharing ideas and pointing out issues, kudos to them, it would be much harder within them.


| MAXON Quality Assurance Specialist | 3D Asset Creator | C4D Cafe Manager |

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I do so because I and many of my colleagues stumble on those things regularly. I spend a majority of my worktime in Timeline. And dope sheet often becomes very messy. For example, when I select an object there, all the children are selected too with all the keys they have. So I can't conveniently move parent's keys not touching children. And it has no logic behind - we can select all the children and parent with a single middle click. Now I have to tackle freaking rectangle selection every time which makes me mad often!

Also, I can't make children keys not appearing on the parent, so I see a total mess on it's track, not the keys belonging to parent object solely.

Soloing track animation does not respect the fact I might need other objects to keep moving. Also, it I'm in solo track mode and add than some more tracks, they are muted - confusing.

Folding and unfolding isn't synchronized between selected objects.

When I press play and go back (Shift+F) playback isn't stopped! It might be useful sometimes, but there's no option to turn it off when it disturbes.

No colour-coding for keys.

"Keep visual angle" is buggy and isn't on by default (when disabling it is a rare need), curves control isn't very friendly overall.

And so on and so on.. It's all trifles, but they make my work much worse. And I have much more to say, but I'm in doubt is anybody listening.

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1 hour ago, Intenditore said:

And I have much more to say, but I'm in doubt is anybody listening.

Perhaps read @Igor's reply again... just because you don't get feedback and thank-yous doesn't mean nobody is listening...

If you need an example of when MAXON listened, look no further than a month ago when they reinstated offline help entirely as a response to user feedback... did you also miss the recent tweet from our CEO which said 'YoU'Ve been heard' ?

 

I see evidence on a daily basis that MAXON constantly listens to their userbase and beta team.

 

Lastly, have you considered that perhaps some, or even all of your ideas might already have been suggested and might already be under discussion or development ? You wouldn't know until years later...

 

CBR

 

 

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1 hour ago, Intenditore said:

I do so because I and many of my colleagues stumble on those things regularly. I spend a majority of my worktime in Timeline. And dope sheet often becomes very messy. For example, when I select an object there, all the children are selected too with all the keys they have. So I can't conveniently move parent's keys not touching children. And it has no logic behind - we can select all the children and parent with a single middle click. Now I have to tackle freaking rectangle selection every time which makes me mad often!

Also, I can't make children keys not appearing on the parent, so I see a total mess on it's track, not the keys belonging to parent object solely.

Soloing track animation does not respect the fact I might need other objects to keep moving. Also, it I'm in solo track mode and add than some more tracks, they are muted - confusing.

Folding and unfolding isn't synchronized between selected objects.

When I press play and go back (Shift+F) playback isn't stopped! It might be useful sometimes, but there's no option to turn it off when it disturbes.

No colour-coding for keys.

"Keep visual angle" is buggy and isn't on by default (when disabling it is a rare need), curves control isn't very friendly overall.

And so on and so on.. It's all trifles, but they make my work much worse. And I have much more to say, but I'm in doubt is anybody listening.

 

Please feel free to add all your suggestions and ideas to your own thread here...

 

https://www.c4dcafe.com/ipb/forums/forum/284-plugins-requests/

 

Us plugin developers can then look over everything and see if there is some way to help out with a separate plugin. This is something I regularly do for people. Would be great to see all your ideas in one place.

 

For what you wrote above it might motivate someone (even myself) to create a specialised version of the timeline that suits your needs.

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We do listen and we even like to listen. Beside issues of timing and development priorities there are a couple of reasons why seemingly straight forward things sometimes take ages.

The biggest issue is that there are as many opinions on how stuff should work out there as there are users. Some have slightly diverging ideas, others just plain want the opposite. Derriving at a solution that will serve most without alienating many is hard work and costs a lot of time.

Another big issue i that many ideas simply go against the technology behind it. We can't implement them without braking other stuff. Our continued work on the new core has helped adressing a host of issues already, but it can't solve everything.

A very time consuming issue is that many of the small issues have pretty big consequences and just making sure we are not making things worse costs a huge amount of time.

So please keep ideas coming, be it via the hopefully soon available again webform, trade shows, support mails or even on the forums. But please understand that we can't react indivudally to every input we get, it would add quite a bit to our workload and delay things further.

 

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@Intenditore

"Despite there is such page, I'm feeling like nobody is reading and nobody is interested in any thoughts from users anymore. "

Same sentiment. I really feel like nobody is reading the submitted suggestions. 
Even a suggestion for "a better suggestion system" takes time to implement despite the fact that it is independent of the software. 

One of the feature I like to be implemented is to track the suggestions I submitted. I feel like I have been submitting redundant feature request. 

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Can we also just see the other suggestions made by the users? So we can upvote them, so they can have more priority.

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Well guys, if you have lack of trust toward us, then simply ask some of the beta testers like @Cerbera, @Rectro or @everfresh. There not much I can say obviosuly to change your mind. If you ask me, we really dont need suggestion system simply becasue we have a lot of beta testers that really participate and again, everything you guys mentiond here, we know about, but there are other priorities that must be tackled before anything else. And Maxon doesnt have unlimited resources! That also doesnt mean we are not looking at those at the moment or for the future.


| MAXON Quality Assurance Specialist | 3D Asset Creator | C4D Cafe Manager |

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