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No more Feature Requests / Suggestions?

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12 minutes ago, bentraje said:

@Intenditore
One of the feature I like to be implemented is to track the suggestions I submitted. I feel like I have been submitting redundant feature request. 

While i understand the sentiment it would mean that each and every feature request would need to be assigned to a development item, which is a huge load of work especially since most of the time the descriptions and requested function do not fully match the development goal.

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10 hours ago, Cerbera said:

just because you don't get feedback and thank-yous doesn't mean nobody is listening

But that's hard to understand. It's not a random example I mentioned - Adobe. They didn't listen at all and they still don't. Remember (if you're into the topic) a decade-old request to add folders into timeline. It could be as easy as showing a nested composition content in the containing composition timeline. And you know what? Nothing. They never ever listened to users and a few hundreds requests they made. So don't get me wrong, but...

10 hours ago, Cerbera said:

I see evidence on a daily basis that MAXON constantly listens to their userbase and beta team.

I wish I could take a part

 

10 hours ago, Cerbera said:

You wouldn't know until years later...

Yep, this pretty much means "forget it".

Also, I do appreciate the returning of trusty offline help, but do you remember how much fight it took? I know as I was one of the most active in the thread and started that "oh no, don't turn Adobe" topic.

Get me right, I do respect developers team and I objectively value C4D as one of the most solid and "human for human" pieces of software, but we are afraid not without a cause.

5 hours ago, srek said:

Another big issue i that many ideas simply go against the technology behind it. We can't implement them without braking other stuff

I totally get it. So I don't even try to propose the things could be so hard to implement, mainly I focus on UI logic. There are some thought on conceptual basis of animation, for example, but I understand how hard it could be to add or change.

 

10 hours ago, kbar said:

plugin developers can then look over everything and see if there is some way to help out with a separate plugin

I pretty much completely forgot there could be a plugin to fix something since I left 3ds Max ;D
Thanks for the proposal)

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Interesting thread, all in all.

 

I do believe, however, that C4D users are exceptionally happy with the program. Why?  Because I see no evidence for the collective needs of the users, beyond everyday questions that do not require programming but can be solved with onboard tools.

 

The category "Plugins Requests" on this very forum contains three entries, the newest being more than two months already. Let me repeat, three entries, on an international forum (which, I think, is one of the largest if not the largest for Cinema 4D). The category "Python/C++" is better off, but I am under the impression it is mostly used by people who are already programming by themselves and need a specific solution, not so much by end users who have an issue/request/need/suggestion. In the category "Market & Job Offers", I just went back ten pages (until 2018) without finding a single request for a programmer.

 

Shouldn't there be a lively discussion on all those ideas which MAXON supposedly gets daily? If people have the impression that MAXON's forms are a black hole, why is nobody trying to involve the community? Sure, there are things only MAXON can solve (practically, or in an efficient way) - if a user needs to have a different behavior for a built-in function, then it might be impossible for a non-MAXON developer to provide a solution without re-inventing that tool from scratch. But very often a little code goes a long way. There are even programmers here on this forum who often will provide a little scripting solution for free (if reasonable) or for a nominal fee.

 

And larger requests could be handled too, if users could agree on some financing system that would allow an independent non-MAXON programmer to create a new feature (something like plugins, but with less overhead and administrative stuff). True, programming is expensive (solving other people's problems is a job, after all), and as someone said in an earlier post, resources are limited, so it will generate extra expenses beyond the naked C4D, but for all those professional users who make a living with C4D (not necessarily hobbyists, for whom time and productivity is not so much of an issue), shouldn't the time and effort savings justify the money? Hey, couldn't several users with similar/the same needs band together and conspire to hire a programmer to alleviate their pains?

I've yet to see that happen.

 

All of that suggests that these needs are not that great, after all (the huge discussion on offline help seems more of an exception). Or the needs are so specific and task-oriented that there is only one user for it, or one job, which makes it really unlikely that MAXON will ever spend resources on it.

 

Or, are they? It's hard to judge ideas if they stay hidden away in someone's brain. It's difficult to gauge interest without a discussion. It is pretty much impossible to estimate effort if the parameters of the desired functionality are unknown.

 

So, summa summarum: Talk, people! Don't just put suggestions to MAXON, put them here as well. Discuss them extensively. Chat with a programmer. Propose a course of action. Make these ideas known! Don't be afraid of silly thoughts and seemingly impossible features. -- Maybe they will not be picked up; maybe they will not find enough support (yes, always that nasty money business); but if they do get out in the open, who knows what may happen.

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I agree on everything you just typed Cairyn. Its simply impossible to please all, this is something I learned the hard way. Spending enormous time on this forum trying to please everyone to extent were I started to feel burned out. On top of that, we get very little to none support. Me personally don't have anything from C4D Cafe, except knowing bunch of great artist and programmers like you, which is something I cherish more than money. Everything I do I do for free and most of members probably just get pissed of when we, or I start to change things and try to change thing to better. No one has a clue that we are just guys who do this because we love what we do and I am especially bonded with the community simply because it made me go through some of worst days, nights, months of dark dark times, same goes for 3D. It was always my escape from depression, its still the case. And seeing complaints like this just hurts me because I have a privilege to work with Maxonians and seeing they being questioned often, just breaks my heart. With all the backlash, we all get affected, believe it or not, but that's the reality, just because we are all passionate about C4D.

 

I am more than open to ideas how to improve on C4D Cafe. I would like to see more developers come together with members to create more great tools and scripts for the community. In the end everyone benefits from it. But unfortunately most of the people just come, take and leave, but that's how it is. Things are often much more complex than people might think, especially in development environment. We all should be happy that more and more Maxonians taking time to participate in discussions, which was not the case before, not to this extent, not to mention having CEO on board, that's rarely a case in any business. 🙂 So I would say, we can be happy and offline help discussion is a proof that if community decide to participate in discussions, things can be done. We just need to convince right people with good arguments and that's it. Have in mind that all sides have their own perspectives and reasons why or why not do things now or later or never or tomorrow. That's why we need as many people as possible to participate, otherwise there is no reason to listen, especially if only few complain among thousands of users without any meaningful arguments!  


| MAXON Quality Assurance Specialist | 3D Asset Creator | C4D Cafe Manager |

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Hey everyone -

 

I think many of you know me - I've been part of MAXON and around this and other C4D communities for 20 years. For the past year or so I've been part of the Product team helping to communicate what you as users need and prioritize development for Cinema 4D.

 

First - you're absolutely right that we can improve in the way we collect ideas and the feedback we provide when ideas come in. I try sometimes to reply to ideas that come in via the support form, but that system isn't well designed to avoid duplicate ideas, discuss ideas and communicate status. It's a top priority for us to implement an improved system. 

 

Second - thanks to the folks that mentioned the difficulty of the task and timing involved. It's important to keep in mind that there's two types of ideas - major new features and smaller workflow tweaks. Major new features are especially tricky to fit into the roadmap, and typically we've got those mapped out a couple of years in advance. It's always great to hear your priorities, but typically we've got a pretty good idea of what we need here - it's a matter of piecing the puzzle together in the proper order to ensure you always have the best C4D possible. It's especially great when you point out the workflow tweaks - like @Intenditore. We're often able to fit these into the road map a bit quicker, and these can have a huge difference in improving your efficiency and enjoyment of Cinema 4D. 

 

@Intenditore - thanks for your specific suggestions. I'm very familiar with your suggestions, and sorry we haven't directly responded to your feedback. You've got some great ideas for improving the animation workflow. BTW - some color coding is already possible though a bit hidden. In the Timeline prefs, you can change Track Color from "No Color" to either "Pos/Scale/Rot" or "Track Color". The last option will allow you to set the color in the AM when selecting a track.

 

Cheers,

Rick

 

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