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Subdividing the model?


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Hello guys. kind of newbie question here. I have a picture of a special text and I want to model it. so I set that on the background of my front view and started using splines and when finished extrude. till now everything is fine and there is a good render. to go further say we need to put fur on the model. since there are no standard subdivisions we clearly won't get a nice fur over the text. also we don't have the font of that special text so we can use Mo-text for a good subdivision. should we absolutely put lots of time and try to create subdivisions with line cut tool on that curvy weird text to make the fur work? I tried for a letter and even with a bit of wrong subdividing, the furs would look bad. so what are the best and also fast ways for these situations. I really like the way of using splines to create models because it is fast and precise. but at the end we stuck like this. Thanks ^^

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Excellent - you have learned an important lesson about the limitations and advantages of using splines for text. The advantage is the speed, the disadvantage is the unsuitable topology that the default caps options gives you for certain purposes subsequently. For this reason there are options you can change to improve this situation somewhat, which are 2-fold...

 

1. Change the interpolation of the text spline (in its attributes) to something like uniform or natural or subdivided for example to get more points along the borders.

2. In the Extrude Object Caps Options change the type there to quads / regular grid, and set the size relatively low until you have a similar polygon density to the edges.

 

This should give you a surface hair can work with evenly.

 

CBR

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1 minute ago, digitvisions said:

Can you please post the file or an example file of your problem.

Thanks. well it is a general question for any types of modelings with splines. in this particular case say this is my text:

213a10e9-5eaa-4395-a947-fd5638231c68.thumb.jpg.e7a7b75c711dd014dc5304c594b62b97.jpg

we surely don't have this font and I need a duplicate model. so did I start correctly using the splines?

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7 minutes ago, Didar said:

we surely don't have this font and I need a duplicate model. so did I start correctly using the splines?

We don't need your scene file in this case if my answer above helps...

 

Splines in extrudes are, without doubt the fastest way of getting 3D text, and you don't have to get involved in any topology. But there are cases where you need really specific topology, and sometimes the caps options cannot offer that, even in R21, where you have delaunay caps, which are much superior to the regular grid of previous versions. But sometimes, not even that will do, and then you have to make the letters properly out of actual polygons like these ones I knocked up earlier... this topology, custom designed as it was, can do anything ! 😉

 

 image.thumb.png.f0c1bdc514c6357868dca0d6a6c1263c.png

 

CBR

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6 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Excellent - you have learned an important lesson about the limitations and advantages of using splines for text. The advantage is the speed, the disadvantage is the unsuitable topology that the default caps options gives you for certain purposes subsequently. For this reason there are options you can change to improve this situation somewhat, which are 2-fold...

 

1. Change the interpolation of the text spline (in its attributes) to something like uniform or natural or subdivided for example to get more points along the borders.

2. In the Extrude Object Caps Options change the type there to quads / regular grid, and set the size relatively low until you have a similar polygon density to the edges.

 

This should give you a surface hair can work with evenly.

 

CBR

Thanks much 🙂 This actually helped. IDK why I did not take a look at these options  before. So another question. I should try to even all the grids right? even a bit of differences can be effective in final render of fur I guess... anyway this was a good help. but when we can use this fast method with splines why we do SDS modeling? I guess the main reason is a very precise results of SDS and splines are always kinda not precise right? so can we say in usual curves which there is no special geometry we can simply use splines? 

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29 minutes ago, Didar said:

ven a bit of differences can be effective in final render of fur I guess...

 No, the contrary is true - you only need a vague approximation of even poly distribution for hair / fur to work properly in the 'Surface' distribution mode. That is why splines in extrudes will do for this and I am not advising you to model it properly.

 

29 minutes ago, Didar said:

I guess the main reason is a very precise results of SDS and splines are always kinda not precise right? so can we say in usual curves which there is no special geometry we can simply use splines? 

 

No, you'd be guessing wrong. Splines are every bit as precise as poly models, and normally even moreso, so that is not the reason that poly modelling is superior. The reason that splines are quite limited is because it is either flat-out impossible, or at best difficult and awkward to control the edge flow of an extruded spline, because the caps options were (in your version and previous) quite limited, and quite a lot of things people want to do with models (primarily animation and where subdivision surfaces are involved) require surfaces with very regulated and designed topology . Edge flow is particularly vital to character animation and sculpting for example, and it is impossible to make these sorts of meshes from splines in that way.

 

Now they are better, but still nothing provides better topology than that which has been made by hand by people that know what they are doing. The reason people use splines might be because they don't have the time or skills to build it properly. Or they need to keep something procedural for later adjustment It takes several years to become a competent poly modeller, and a lot of people aren't prepared to put that level of time and effort into learning this essential skill. Sometimes, those sorts of people will begin selling their services to clients, and may well come unstuck when a client demands a proper model for later animation etc, and because they lack any actual modelling skills, can ONLY rely on the helpful cheats and helpers that Cinema provides - and that is a terrible situation to find yourself in hence my ongoing mission to encourage everyone to learn to poly model properly asap 🙂

 

But that is not to say splines are universally bad or inappropriate or inferior. It is possible to use splines in lofts, lathes, and even extrudes as the basis for later polygon modelling, in which the various issues caused by using splines can be avoided, mitigated or addressed. There is no shame at all in using a series of n-side splines in a loft (no caps) to make the starting point for a human arm for example, because the topology that provides is all quads and perfectly suitable for continued poly modelling.

 

Hope that helps - it's just scraping the surface of what can be an extremely lengthy discussion on the subject.

 

CBR

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Thanks for the detailed answer. I always learn way too much from you guys and it is really enjoyable ^^

I have uploaded a sample project here. would you please take a look at that? it is 2 millions of furs and that seems good with that. but with lower amount I get bad and uneven results. is it normal to use this many? or did I do something wrong?

test.c4d

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That is a totally normal amount of fur hairs for that sort of object. I would have used hair rather than fur as this has many more options that help you get thicker fur results with less actual hairs, than fur provides. I generally avoid fur altogether for that reason - hair is almost always superior, even if you're trying to make fur ! 🙂

 

CBR

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1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

We don't need your scene file in this case if my answer above helps...

 

But sometimes, not even that will do, and then you have to make the letters properly out of actual polygons like these ones I knocked up earlier... this topology, custom designed as it was, can do anything ! 😉

 

 image.thumb.png.f0c1bdc514c6357868dca0d6a6c1263c.png

 

CBR

Oh I just saw this. I could not understand exactly what you mean. is there another way to create my custom font? because I even thought of making my own font with other different applications for windows, so after that I can use that fond in c4D and moText and everything... but I am not sure if it works and if it will be subdivided like other fonts. but it seems you are proposing another way here which I could not understand...did you make all this by yourself? from polygons? it should be hard... 😮

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