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The end of MSA

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On 1/31/2020 at 2:50 AM, Sreckom said:

Why would you switch to subscriptions and than go back to permanent? Why just not staying on permanent and pay maintenance/upgrade? I do not see point of adding one more layer of complexity...

Subscription is the cheaper option but one that you need to stay on it if you want to keep using the program.   To appreciate my proposal, you need to think long term.


Imagine 10 years down the line of being a subscription participant.   Your last permanent license is fixed at R20, but C4D is now at R30 and essentially a completely different program.  In those 10 years you have built up or acquired quite a library of models, shaders, plugins, scripts etc.   If you total it all up over 10 years, it could be a significant investment in time and/or money.


Now, imagine in 10 years that circumstances are such that you have decided to leave C4D and you no longer wish to renew the subscription.  Well, all those assets are now worthless or are so numerous that you haven't exported everything to FBX for use in a target application.  Plus there is no guarantee that the conversion will be clean and/or not require significant clean-up in the target application.  Either way, you are looking at a loss of assets and/or a lot of work to give those assets a new life outside of C4D.  And if you used plugins or modifiers in their creation, then that just adds to the uncertainty of whether or not you could port them over.  If all you have is R20, well there is no guarantee everything you have created since then would work in such an old release (chances are, it would not).


As I don't know what the future holds, I want an insurance policy that my assets will still be usable down the road.  But I don't want to have to pay the massive 53% premium that MAXON wants each year for me to purchase a permanent license.  I just don't think that is fair.   I am okay with a paying half that premium each year to make my R(n-1) subscription permanent when they release the new version (or R(n)).  That way I don't lose everything should circumstances change and I need to move on from C4D.  If this wasn't a real concern, there would be no push-back on subscriptions.  But we all know that isn't true.


Again, this is a long term play and to appreciate the win-win I proposed, you need to think long term. 



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On 1/20/2020 at 1:28 PM, DMcGavran said:

We have other offers where you keep your perpetual and you can add a subscription at a reduced cost.  




Mr. McGavran,


Every offer I see has the words "convert your permanent to subscription" buried in the text.    But if what you say is true (and there should be no reason why anyone should doubt you), then you need to make it more public because overall, it is a good start to addressing everyone's anxiety about subscriptions (loss of access if you don't renew)!!! 


But ultimately, what I want to see also is "keep your subscription but add a permanent license at a reduced price".  This would be along the lines of the win-win I proposed above for the reasons I also outlined above. Hopefully, you appreciate that these are very real concerns.


If there was that option too, then I may opt for the C4D+Redshift subscription program (eg. ALL IN) and a happy C4D user until I outlive my retirement income.





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"Why would not you pay upgrade every year like you did so far? Is that option not available now?"

Correct me if I'm wrong but MAXON hasn't release any info about this (that's why it is soooooooooo frustrating). 
Currently, it is not possible since there are no longer maintenance program which was the previous upgrade. 

There were unconfirmed details in the forum that MAXON will continue with the "upgrade" perpetual license but at 30% more price increase than before. Basically, to force you to use subscription, instead of the perpetual. (Equally frustrating)

I'd like to be proven wrong but that's the extent of my knowledge currently. 

It doesn't help either that my reseller (a Singaporean company, in my case) is no longer operational. So, I'm not sure where to rely now. 

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4 hours ago, Sreckom said:

@3D-Pangel What I do not understand is why would you lose you permanent license? Why would not you pay upgrade every year like you did so far? Is that option not available now?

No it is.  I just don't like the 30% price increase that happened to keep a permanent license when subscriptions were introduced (from $720 in the old MSA program to a $950 cost for the new permanent license).  Not really fair to a 10 year Studio owner who has faithfully upgraded every year to then be hit with a massive price increase (and it used to be $650 all those years).  I understand why it happened but that doesn't make it any less painful.


MAXON wants people on the subscription plan.  Re-occurring revenue is a wonderful thing to pretty much any company.  So part of me thinks that MAXON's logic is this: To get people to adopt subscriptions we will make it the same cost as the old MSA.  If they don't, then they get hit with a 30% price increase for a permanent license.  So we are being forced to subscriptions.   I also fear that permanent licenses will be more prone to price increases in the future than subscription prices.  Nothing to say that will happen - but it is a logical outcome given how companies love re-occurring revenue.  I am a long term thinker, and there very well could be a future when all I can afford is a subscription.


My big fear with subscriptions is loss of everything if I can't afford the subscription in the future.  In that world, should financial circumstances require me to no longer afford a C4D subscription,  I want a jumping off point that is somewhat reasonably affordable and which keeps me using C4D (even if it is one version down) and that is why I came up with the win-win scenario.




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BTW: While I appreciate Mr. McGavran's involvement in the forum, I would love to hear him at least recognize that he hears and appreciates the concerns of a long term C4D user who just wants to keep using the program long into his retirement.  I am just not sure that subscriptions are the most financially viable path over the long term on a fixed income.



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  • 3 months later...
On 1/20/2020 at 6:28 PM, DMcGavran said:

Please just call :). The 2 year offer requires you transition to subscription.  We have other offers where you keep your perpetual and you can add a subscription at a reduced cost.  We aren't going to list all options here but happy to go through them all on phone 🙂




Hi Dave, sorry to revive an old thread but I have a question. 

Could you elaborate on the offer where I can keep perpetual and add a subscription at reduced cost?

My MSA is due to end soon, I've spoken to UK customer services a couple of times and I didn't have that option.


Many Thanks



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4 hours ago, MarcoD said:

Could you elaborate on the offer where I can keep perpetual and add a subscription at reduced cost?

Can you elaborate a bit more on this?  Is it even a real option or something you heard on the forum as a proposal?


Also, are you referring to both perpetual and subscription within the same Release number?  Not sure why you would pay for R21 perpetual and then go out an pay for S21 subscription?  If it is just to get access to Cineversity, I would imagine that paying them directly rather than purchasing S21 would be the better option.


Is it that you have R21 but want early access to S22?  Honestly, I would wait and/or purchase monthly for the S22 features you really need when you need them until R22 comes out (most likely only 4 months away).


I am always interested in what MAXON may or may not allow in moving between subscription and perpetual and vice versa, so please share the details of an any offer you may have heard in this area.



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God, i know i’m repeating what’s already been said elsewhere. But it’s really expensive. 

Actually I’d be happy to pay top-dollar if i thought i was getting the best Product out there. But when you consider that you really need to pay separately for a decent render engine and decent particle system ON TOP, you really have to ask if c4d is what you should spend your money on going forward.


I will add myself to the growing line of non-upgraders this year. 

I would be interested in knowing the breakdown of individuals compared to companies buying licences though. Reading these forums it sometimes feels like the majority of posters are freelancers/independents. You would assume the buyers in most larger commercial environments don’t really care about using their company software 10 years later, and would prefer the simpler subscription model for their yearly budget requests.

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2 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

Can you elaborate a bit more on this?  Is it even a real option or something you heard on the forum as a proposal?


Hi, sorry the question was aimed at Dave McGavran. The quote in my post was from one of his, which included

'We have other offers where you keep your perpetual and you can add a subscription at a reduced cost.'


I'm keen to keep my perpetual R21, rather than lose it if I go subscription. And if i can do that at a reduced cost all the better.





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