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Didar

Morphing on 2 complex objects?

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Hello guys. I know for morphing we need to have exactly same amount of points on both objects. so usually morphing should be a very price and hard for complex objects. for a long time I had this question that, how they morph very complex shapes in movies, like a head to a chair or something. anyway that is a big question which I would like to know about but here is my real issue. I got two spherical very high poly objects. imagine 2 different asteroids. so I need to morph one to another. there are no same number of points of course. what can I do? I was thinking about many things. maybe using inheritance or other kinds of efectors 😕 but that wont be realistic. I want something really nice. I even thought that I can put a displacer deformer on object A and try to deform it to get similar to object B. so then I can easily use the deformer to morph. still lots of work and not a good quality. my final effort was to put displacer on both and make both of them similar enough so the morph can be even nicer. but there is gotta be a better way which I don't know. what do you think? 

also I got another question. how can we constrain the PLA for one object to another object's PLA? imagine I have 2 objects with same amount of points. when I do some PLA, the other one should get animated just like first one. here is a simpler question , maybe... how can constrain the shape of 2 different FFD deformer? 

Thanks guys

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35 minutes ago, Didar said:

How (do) they morph very complex shapes in movies, like a head to a chair or something.

 

Generally speaking, they have custom-written software rigs and extensible, bespoke functionality written for their host programs, and usually a team of 30 specialists in different fields working on a complex custom pipeline.

 

35 minutes ago, Didar said:

I was thinking about many things. maybe using inheritance or other kinds of effectors 😕 but that wont be realistic.

 

No, those ideas would apply if you were dealing with clones, but you are not, you are trying to morph a single object into another unrelated, object.

As this could never happen in the real world, I don't know what you can mean by 'realistic' ! And you need to define what you mean by 'nice' as well - that could mean anything !

 

35 minutes ago, Didar said:

how can we constraint the PLA for 2 objects? imagine I have 2 objects with same amount of points. when I do some PLA, the other one should get animated just like first one

 

We can do that using instances. But they don't work on deformers, which answers your next question...

 

35 minutes ago, Didar said:

how can constraint the shape of 2 different FFD deformer? 

 

I'm not sure we can, or at least not without resorting to Xpresso to link specific points in 1 FFD to those in another. That is not my area of expertise, so somebody will have to elaborate on that...

 

CBR

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  • 14 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

     

    No, those ideas would apply if you were dealing with clones, but you are not, you are trying to morph a single object into another unrelated, object.

    As this could never happen in the real world, I don't know what you can mean by 'realistic' ! And you need to define what you mean by 'nice' as well - that could mean anything !

    CBR

    Hey there. you again to the rescue 😅

    Thanks. about this, so the "realistic" part was my bad. to make it short, remember that blob thing I posted a few days ago? the spherical very high-poly shape which you said we can not use meatball? well, that is object A. we also got another object similar to that but with lots of differences on the surface(holes and stuff). so can we morph these two? I don't know what to use instead of "nice" 😄 but something that can work good. you know what I mean. oh here is a photo:

    image.thumb.png.bf3610bb0c56b1d65d1078b3bf546b27.png

     

    Thanks Cerbera

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    The point I was trying to make with the pros and their pipelines is that we as consumers don't have the budget and personnel to do that, so we have to think a bit differently. We have to think what we are trying to do, think what the program is capable of, and then find a way to make it so using the tools and methods we have. And therein lies the challenge of 3D. Good artists will persevere until they find a way, even it takes them days and days to get there, and less good ones will give up before they find it...

     

    Now, few of us here have got the time to do all that experimentation and work for you (we have our own stuff to be getting on with ! 😉 ) but you can seriously help the people that might try by providing a scene (.c4d) file and screenshots of both the objects, and a very clear description of what you want to do, and what the wider circumstances of the scene are, so that people have a really good understanding of what we are trying to achieve here..

     

    And if you keep all your future questions about this project in this thread, then that reference will always apply.

     

    13 minutes ago, Didar said:

    so can we morph these two?

     

    Not in any way I can immediately think of, but that is not to say the answer won't occur to me in 3 days time, or to someone else sooner. 

    In the meantime I would work on what we do know, which is that Pose Morph wants an identical amount of points, so let's build 2 asteroids that meet that specification, and THEN try and make them into the shapes we want. You should be able to deform the same base mesh in radically different ways without changing point count via displacers, so that would seem the logical way to go initially... perhaps if you can explain why that won't work for you we can find out if we truly do have to find another way...

     

    CBR

     

     

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  • 1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

    The point I was trying to make with the pros and their pipelines is that we as consumers don't have the budget and personnel to do that, so we have to think a bit differently. We have to think what we are trying to do, think what the program is capable of, and then find a way to make it so using the tools and methods we have. And therein lies the challenge of 3D. Good artists will persevere until they find a way, even it takes them days and days to get there, and less good ones will give up before they find it...

     

    Yes I got your point here. I knew it was a challenging job and kinda hard. but did not know the exact procedure which you told me. actually I run a studio myself and most of my questions are educational. we don't have any Cinema 4D artists in our studio right now. so I am trying to learn it myself. oh and this is our demo reel: http://bit.ly/ShowReel2020

    So as I was dealing with customers and many other things, I was not much into very technical details and I am trying to catch up. I really did not want to bother you with my questions and I am sorry if I did so. I did not want to make the impression that you are working for me or making much experimentation and effort on my project. this is mostly educational for me and if I had a serious project I can simply pass it to a good artist. I did not think there is some pressure on you about it. I thought so I can post a question and can have some ideas how to act and which technique. if I did not post a c4D file it was just because to not bother so much and try asking with an image for only some hints. you know in my head, there are very experienced people like you here and you can simply give a hint just by looking at a picture. something that I would do. but it seems for you to have a c4d file is even easier. so I try to be more clear and provide more resources in future. thanks 🙂

    1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

    You should be able to deform the same base mesh in radically different ways without changing point count via displacers, so that would seem the logical way to go initially... perhaps if you can explain why that won't work for you we can find out if we truly do have to find another way...

    Yes this is a veyr good idea. but the issue is that I have made 2 very custom looking asteroids with a sphere(with displacer deformer) and some capsule in cloners and put them all inside the volume builder. so I got exactly what I need. it is like I created the whole shape in Zbrush. do you think I can get this precise shape only using some deformers? I hope I could explain it correctly. 

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    No no, you miss my point slightly I fear. It's not that we are too busy to help you, it's that you can help us help you by uploading the file, so that we don't have to waste the time recreating it ourselves, only to find what we have done is somehow different to yours, and our suggested solutions might apply to ours but not yours, whereas if we'd just had your file, not only would we already have the setup done for us, but we'd know it was exactly what you wanted ! Please don't ever feel you are harassing us by providing more detail and the relevant scene file !

     

    20 minutes ago, Didar said:

    Yes this is a veyr good idea. but the issue is that I have made 2 very custom looking asteroids with a sphere(with displacer deformer) and some capsule in cloners and put them all inside the volume builder. so I got exactly what I need. it is like I created the whole shape in Zbrush. do you think I can get this precise shape only using some deformers? I hope I could explain it correctly. 

     

    Yeah, that's not going to work, because by introducing the volume builder / mesher part  when you have in the process you have changed the point count. So you do need to get your intended result another way. I can think of 2 other ways initially, but there may be more...

     

    1. Change your order of operation. Build one asteroid using the volume builder / mesher setup, complete with all its cloner craters etc. But then take 2 editable polygon copies of that THEN use whatever tools and methods you like (but not a generator that would change the point count) to make the second object out of the copy. Then your pose morph can work because your point count won't change thereafter.

     

    2. Abandon VB workflow altogether and do it with sculpting instead. There is specific functionality between sculpting and the poses you can use within pose morph which you can read about in the manual, and the stamps and stencils you can find there will probably be able to get you the result you need, and may even be MORE suitable for this than displacers were...

     

    CBR

     

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  • 11 hours ago, Cerbera said:

    No no, you miss my point slightly I fear. It's not that we are too busy to help you, it's that you can help us help you by uploading the file, so that we don't have to waste the time recreating it ourselves, only to find what we have done is somehow different to yours, and our suggested solutions might apply to ours but not yours, whereas if we'd just had your file, not only would we already have the setup done for us, but we'd know it was exactly what you wanted ! Please don't ever feel you are harassing us by providing more detail and the relevant scene file !

    Thanks dear for the explanations. I will do so. and By the way, if I quote something that you wrote before, you will get a notification? or you just regularly read new and old posts? I am not sure how it works 😄 

    11 hours ago, Cerbera said:

    1. Change your order of operation. Build one asteroid using the volume builder / mesher setup, complete with all its cloner craters etc. But then take 2 editable polygon copies of that THEN use whatever tools and methods you like (but not a generator that would change the point count) to make the second object out of the copy. Then your pose morph can work because your point count won't change thereafter.

     

    this first way worked nicely. not the best, but I can say very good. it can also help me for many things in future. thanks 🙂 

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    24 minutes ago, Didar said:

    By the way, if I quote something that you wrote before, you will get a notification? or you just regularly read new and old posts? I am not sure how it works 😄 

     

    Yep, if you quote anything a cafe member said or mention one specifically we get notified when we're next here. Some people want emails when that happens, but I have that turned off. 

     

    CBR

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    Let me throw in my couple of cents to this.

    Planning and lot's of work are key elements. If you have 2 different objects and want to morph them into each other, you first need to define what the boundaries of the effect will be. For example, in the Transformers movies, the transformations are totally unrealistic in real life. Most of the stuff just scales down and disappears and other stuff scales up and appears. Very few objects morph into each other.

    In your case, you would need either to make both objects using the same point count, or use a similar method for both. For example, if you use Volume and noises to build both Spheres, then "morphing" from one volume to another is not difficult. Here's a tutorial:

    https://www.cineversity.com/vidplaylist/morphing_objects_with_volumes_fields/morphing_objects_with_volumes_fields_creating_complimentary_meshes

     

    Overall, you first need to define what you want to do, then identify the potential technical difficulties, then set the acceptable type of effect (maybe you can just use masks in compositing, and a flare to hide the transition) and THEN build it to accommodate the above.

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  • On 3/11/2020 at 4:52 PM, Cerbera said:

     

    CBR

    So Cerbera, I got this setup for some simple morphs using FFD:

    image.thumb.png.6818b80811d4690bf9009823f63ff46b.png

    so my object gets flatten, Triangle or moves. I wanted to ask first if this is the best setup for my purpose (it currently does my purpose well), second, if we want also to animate and move the object should we use the simple keyframing method or we better move the whole point in ffd and animate them (as I did here), third, FFD is great for these simple animations. but what if I want to create a bit more complicated. so, for example, imagine this blob wants to eat something. the front side can get a bit wide and then can split into 2 concave watery like arms which can round the target and then move forward to devour it (or something better if you have in mind). I could not make an organic animation of it. it will get like pliers and bad shape. I was thinking of using some deformers like Surface deformer and a Torus to produce such effect but could not get good result. could not get meatball to help also because high-poly object... any idea about it?( I know my current shape does not have enough polygons and we can put SDS on it if needed)

    ffd1.c4d

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