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S22 Feature Overview & Discussion


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3 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

No...I think not.  In case there are any doubters - here it is in black and white.  I encourage everyone to do the same as I just fell in-line with the whole perpetual vs. subscription model without thinking that last years MSA agreement would still offer yearly updates.  It clearly calls out "upgrades" in the wording.

 

Dave

image.thumb.png.c4f12431b5f81f4ccd0a7e2b4069f191.png

 

It does not say when you get access to it. So as long as you are given access to the features of the upgrade within the upgrade cycle of your MSA there are fullfilling their side of the deal. I believe they had mentioned that it is available now for Subscribers, and will eventually be met for perpetual folks. The idea is that MAXON could probably do multiple releases in a year. During that time subscribers would get them as they arrive as a perk of being a subscriber and not 'owning' the software', and perpetual licenses would get the compiled upgrade at the end of the cycle.

 

So it's not that you won't get it, it's that you won't get it right when it's available.

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3 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

But then R21 came out and quite frankly it was a gut punch.

I personally would have done a "replace ascii 0x67 to 0x6E", but that's just my feeling.

 

And as far as your MSA goes ... well, we all know that R22 will be released on 1st September. Your MSA, just as mine, will have expired by the end of August. Too bad for us, but such is the deal.

 

While I like the the improvements I see with this S22, I have mixed feelings. And not only because of the UV related features. There are quite some R21 bugs I have encountered and reported to MAXON (december '19). Having not seen them fixed with R21.207 I fear these will not get handled before R22 hit the shelves ... if at all.

 

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Just wanted to say that I realize that sometimes I and others in the forum come across as very critical of what MAXON does or does not do. I feel personally invested in MAXON and its software. I really care what happens with it so. I am very grateful to the developers and management in what they have been able to create over the years and I have enjoyed the software and it has helped me with my career and personal creative development. So thank you MAXON & Team for everything you guys do and please try not to take the criticism too personally,  we speak up because we care.

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On 4/21/2020 at 1:41 AM, Igor said:

Guys, MAXON is in a uniqe situation where unforunately some painful path must be folowed and thats the transition from old to new code, which e.g. Blender didnt have to do and thus they are able to push features more quickly becasue they core allows it.

That statement is incorrect: Blender has gone through two major rewrites so far: from 2.4x to 2.5, and from 2.79 to 2.8x. The viewport was completely rewritten as well in 2.8. The old internal renderer was removed and replaced with Eevee.

 

The difference between how MAXON has approached this is that the Blender developers decided to work concurrently on the older branch and new branch, thereby providing users with a choice to keep working with a stable older version and on the other hand testing the waters in the new rewitten branch. It allowed the user base to keep grounded, while prepare for the new version. MAXON took another path altogether: keep things hidden from public view, release ever more lackluster new releases, while increasing the financial upkeep, while continuously  repeat stating that great things are in the works. Keep paying more and more! We will get there by the end! 

 

One more difference is that, unlike MAXON, the Blender devs kept communicating about what they were doing while doing it. Really no false expectations there (for the most part, at least).

 

And the most important difference is: MAXON management is abusing the S22 release to proverbially force their long-time loyal user base into rental plans, because at this point I feel it is made quite plainly obvious that they do not like the perpetual licensing or old MSAs, and want all C4d users to go rental. Rather than Maxons's users, it seems to me Nemetschek Group's shareholders are of primary concern.

 

Look, I completely understand how difficult and complex a rewrite is (in particular for a commercial product): Newtek failed abysmally with Core and mismanaging Lightwave in the ground while they were at it; TrueSpace failed altogether when the devs tried to patch on a new shell on top of the old code base; it took the Blender Foundation 5 years to release 2.8, and the new version has still some catching up to do in some areas in terms of performance. (which, coincidentally, also seems to be true for S22 compared to R21 with performance regressions!)  Core rewrites are HARD, and take a toll on new and existing features. It takes years and years and years. And MAXON's management made some basic mistakes in terms of presenting and communicating these changes under the hood.

 

Yet. Yet! I congratulate the C4D developer team on persisting and the first fruits of their labour are finally born here. It is just that MAXON's management seems to be in complete denial of what is going on in the rest of the world right now. And MAXON/Nemetschek Group comes across as a bit of a bully (not you, the C4d dev team!). In particular now that the world is dealing with Covid-19 and while many software companies are assisting their user bases, MAXON seems bent on making live only more difficult for their existing loyal user base.

 

Which is absolutely incomprehensible to me and my work peers here (where we work with C4d R20 still).

 

Then I see the friendly faces of the C4D team doing their best to introduce S22 and tell enthusiastically about new features and the great future that lies ahead of all of C4d users. Which I understand and actually love seeing that openess, but which is at great odds with what your higher management is doing. 

 

For myself, I perceive an unbelievable friction between what is done on a management and pricing level on the one hand by MAXON/Nemetschek Group, and the C4d's team charming happiness and enthusiasm over this S22 release and the upcoming features.

 

Anyway, MAXON's management will have to deal with all of this at some point. In a few years 3d software prices will have tanked. C4d, currently relying on its user friendliness and MoGraph, will have to compete with cheap rents and a feature-complete easy to use Blender. It has happened to graphic design software, and it is happening to 3d DCC software. MAXON better prepare for this.

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, hvanderwegen said:

That statement is incorrect: Blender has gone through two major rewrites so far: from 2.4x to 2.5, and from 2.79 to 2.8x. The viewport was completely rewritten as well in 2.8. The old internal renderer was removed and replaced with Eevee.

 

I tried to check if the rewrites are comparable but had a bit of a hard time. It seems that 2.5 and 2.8 were indeed huge steps, but from all i was able to gather they do not compare to what si did, Newtek was trying and MAXON is currently doing. Though major portions of blender were overhauled the fundamental structure seems to have stayed. Many similar operations have been done on Cinema 4D over time, but due to the different way things were done it wasn't as visible.  I would not call that a core rewrite or at least not one comparable to what birthed XSI and what MAXON is working on.
Also please do not get me wrong, i actually don't see this as a negative, it speaks well for the fundamental architecture of Blender.
 

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5 hours ago, C4DS said:

I personally would have done a "replace ascii 0x67 to 0x6E", but that's just my feeling.

Wow!  Very clever.  I don't think the level of censorship today in the forum is as restrictive as it was in the past, so resorting to ascii code to get your point across was probably not required....but it certainly made it funnier!

 

Dave

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8 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

...but it certainly made it funnier!

That was the whole point. Glad you liked it.

Actually, the idea is kind of borrowed from the tagline "There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who can read binary, and those who can't."

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1 hour ago, C4DS said:

That was the whole point. Glad you liked it.

Actually, the idea is kind of borrowed from the tagline "There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who can read binary, and those who can't."

 

binary is everywhere...something like...

 We are 10 at home... My wife is n.1 and I´m zero...

 

 ps, sorry for off-topic

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Hey,

 

Here are some positives

I reviewed the UV unwrapping and it seems to be surprisingly good

I put a summary here:

 

But I can repost it in the forum if people want

 

But one cruxial thing that is missing is multi UV editing, this cripples everything still sadly
- and selecting UV islands borders to create phong breaks would be very useful as all old scripts broke with R21

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