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David Davis

S22 Thoughts on Subscription Only

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    1 hour ago, jbatista said:

    I really think people shouldn't drop their MSA, or strike deals with MAXON just because they're releasing a subscription only update. In fact MSA's can be renewed after the release of R22 like always. For new users subscription is probably a more interesting option, but for old time users with MSA, things didnt change that much (probably prices).

     

    This S22 actually is more of a beta than a production ready version. It's filled with bugs and performance issues , so i don't recomend professionals to use it and to rely on it. Bugs like the sculpt system that is completly messed up (send an email to MAXON, and they are aware of it) and some bugs related to performance issues also.

     

    This version is nice to see some of the new features that will appear in the next R22 release, and hopefully with all the other bugs fixed. I used a trial version, checked the new features and now i'll wait for the september release. For me it's more important a stable and complete release than just a superficial one with stability problems. 

    So for everyone with MSAs, just be a little more patient. Don't rush to convert your license type unless u prefer subscription model. Things didnt change that much, and in september we have a decent version to use.

    I so hope you are right and we have R22. I think many people are nervous after Adobe went subscription only and not to mention the sub prices on other comparable 3D packages, which can be absolutely insane. Just a whiff of the idea of being held hostage by subscription gets my attention these days. 

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    Sry everyone. My bad, my confusion. (by the way i do not work for MAXON).  What i mean is perpetual can stil be upgraded even if msa is gone. That's what i meant to say, but choose bad words. So wat i really wanted to say is, if you have a Perpetual license and if you plan to use your software in a long term, i think is still worth the upgrade.

     

    sry again, poor choice of words.

     

    and by the way, if i was someone working for MAXON, i defininitly should be recomending you to go to subsciption, and also that S22 is a great release when in reality it is not, just to clear some confusion.

     

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    On 5/1/2020 at 7:01 PM, Jops said:

    I am quite shure that we will see a R23 perpetual and maybe even a R25. So i am hopefull, that they will release at least two more perpetual updates. basically nothing changes for you besides the price. while before it was a MSA price it is now a "normal" perpetual price. So I guess you can upgrade just like before every year to a new perpetual version just for 25 to 50% more than you payed for you MSA (Depending of your first MSA purchase date).

    But unfortunately I am quite shure, that considering the much to high perpetual price, compared to subscription. we will see a lot of people who just skip the update (I might as well) resulting in MAXON removing perpetual in some years because of "the lack of interesst", while it was basically the decission on the high perpetual price by MAXON. The longer I think about that the clearer it accures to me, that when MAXON is not changing the price of perpetual this is the route things will go. Even if this should not be the intended outcome, MAXON is well aware of this posobility and is willing to sacrefice perpetual.

    EJ has mentioned this on YouTube, so it appears R22 is coming 

     

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    Those " Pros" that switch to free Blender..will they pass on their savings in production costs to their established clients? Will they F...........

    Actually thinking about it...Marx would love this topic. There is no "Middle Class" there are only The Workers and those who own the means of production. Blender is a pure example of Software Socialism / Anarchy...but what would he have to say about those who gain profit from paid extensions/ plugins to blender ? If the only app was Blender the paid for plugin developers would own the means of production for those niches.. If the plugin developers were a cooperative ? If the plugin developer was a sole trader ?There is a Doctorate to be had here..........

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    Hey guys and girls..I am not taking any sides..I really do not understand any of this subscription stuff apart from it makes budgeting simpler for my small mind.

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    1 hour ago, hobbyist said:

    42

    Has anyone checked on the Dolphins ?

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    7 hours ago, DMcGavran said:

    1. MSA Program is replaced with Subscription

    2. Subscribers get S22

    3. Upgrade pricing similar to last year (non MSA) will be available with our next Perpetual release in the late summer/early fall.

    4. New perpetual purchases are also avail at that time same price as now

    5. Subscribers will also get this release as a subscription as well.

     

     

    Thank you Mr. McGavran.  Can we get some numbers around point 3.   Using the words "pricing similar to last year (non-MSA)" would imply that the cost for perpetual license upgrades would be the same as the non-MSA one revision upgrades which were offered in the pre-subscription era....which is around $995. 

    I think it is $995.....not sure.  I am not sure because information on perpetual license upgrade costs are not readily available on any MAXON web-site nor from any MAXON distributor for reasons which have yet to be explained.  They used to be there in the pre-subscription era but for now it just says to call the MAXON sales office.

     

    If R22 is going to cost $995, this validates my concerns all along....pricing to get people out of perpetual licenses as you are hitting us with a 38% price increase ($720 to $995) since last year (which was already on top of another price increase from the year before from $650 to $720 - a whopping 53% hit in two years) .  A bit painful for the hobbyist in this new COVID-19 economy.

     

    I don't mean to belabor the point, but you do have to admit, the hobbyist is getting hurt the most in all this.  

     

    Dave

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    6 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

    Thank you Mr. McGavran.  Can we get some numbers around point 3.   Using the words "pricing similar to last year (non-MSA)" would imply that the cost for perpetual license upgrades would be the same as the non-MSA one revision upgrades which were offered in the pre-subscription era....which is around $995. 

     

    Yes, that’s the price we should expect to pay for a perpetual license upgrade. No breaking news here, several MAXON employees posted here and on other forums about this topic on multiple occasions. 
    And yes  again, perpetual licenses will die at some point. This is where this industry is heading. Just read the Autodesk earnings report and analysts Q&A to understand how powerful this business model is for software companies. 
     

    This model works as long as the company has a competitive edge with unique features that other programs cannot compete with. C4D has mograph. That's their captive market. Houdini is just overkill for the average motion designer who integrates a bit of 3D in his/her workflow. As long as they stay ahead in this field, they can charge whatever they want. 

     

    I’m still ok to pay for now because I can afford it but this program has become highly fragmented and lost a lot in terms of perceived value compared to 10 years ago. Back then I used to have a great render engine and an acceptable particle system with BP, the leading UV/texturing tool in the industry. 
    These modules are now outdated and require external solutions (substance, x particles, TFD, octane/redshift etc), while the price of the program kept increasing. 

    when I read that AD might offer an indie license of Maya for 250$/year (already the case for 3ds max), I cannot help but think that MAXON will have to revise its prices down if they want to keep their indie users, who actually made C4d the successful program it is today. 

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    8 hours ago, paulselhi said:

    Those " Pros" that switch to free Blender..will they pass on their savings in production costs to their established clients? Will they F...........

    Actually thinking about it...Marx would love this topic. There is no "Middle Class" there are only The Workers and those who own the means of production. Blender is a pure example of Software Socialism / Anarchy...but what would he have to say about those who gain profit from paid extensions/ plugins to blender ? If the only app was Blender the paid for plugin developers would own the means of production for those niches.. If the plugin developers were a cooperative ? If the plugin developer was a sole trader ?There is a Doctorate to be had here..........

    Blender is free market, the contrary of Marxist socialism where coercion is the paradigm.

     

    Now after that interlude, i noticed no reference about the MSA of users with R21...and the so called S22

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