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S22 Thoughts on Subscription Only


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4 hours ago, paulselhi said:

Perhaps you could have chosen a better phrase. In English "skimming off" implies illicit siphoning of monies..

Then I am sorry for the misunderstanding, my english is limited and therefor it requires a bit of good will by the reader ūüôā

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For the hobbyist who has never made a dime off of the software, annual maintenance costs do add up but the beauty of maintenance over subscription is that you are actually "owning" something at the en

I honestly want to believe Srek....I seriously hope that MAXON is trying to repair the trust that was lost in their confusing roll-out of subscriptions.  Unfortunately, after 8 months with nothing don

*headdesk* I swear, threads about justified criticism always get derailed and mutilated and twisted until the original complaint is no longer even recognizeable.   Marxism, now? Really?

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5 hours ago, Cairyn said:

*headdesk* I swear, threads about justified criticism always get derailed and mutilated and twisted until the original complaint is no longer even recognizeable.

 

Marxism, now? Really?

 

That's why I just watch the Monty Python videos and not read the comments.

 

...always happy to spend a few moments in "Spamalot!"

 

Dave

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Take it easy, take it easy
Don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy
Lighten up while you still can
Don't even try to understand
Just find a place to make your stand
Take it easy
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17 hours ago, paulselhi said:

Jops..reading your posts on subscriptions you stated "However, MAXON is now a subsidiary of Nemechek (sic). And I’m afraid that’s where the problem lies. Profits that must have been made in the last 15 years were probably more likely to be skimmed off than to go into development" are you suggesting fraudulent activity at Nemetschek ?

 

MAXON  was bought in 1999 by Nemetschek. More than 20 years ago.

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On 5/6/2020 at 4:17 AM, Adrien said:

Yes, that’s the price we should expect to pay for a perpetual license upgrade. No breaking news here, several MAXON employees posted here and on other forums about this topic on multiple occasions. 
And yes  again, perpetual licenses will die at some point. This is where this industry is heading. Just read the Autodesk earnings report and analysts Q&A to understand how powerful this business model is for software companies. 
 

 

Personally, I intend to avoid C4D subscription as long as possible and at all cost. Fingers crossed MAXON will continue to sell perpetual upgrades for a few more versions and I can jump off with my perpetual hopefully on something like R24 before the sub dives under the water. I also imagine droves of C4D perpetual users will be purchasing that final perpetual upgrade like mad. 

I could foresee myself far into the future subscribing for a year if I landed a large project and could pass on the cost of the annual sub to the client. For small bread and butter projects, in a subscription only world, the final perpetual license version I land on in the upcoming musical chairs scramble would have to suffice. I fully support MAXON and their efforts, I wish them maximum success so we can enjoy future Cinema4D updates as the company thrives, I do however question how I can involve myself in their future growth based on my own purchasing power. 

People rambling about migrating to Blender should remember that C4D users invest thousands of hours and years learning the nuances of C4D. It takes a long time to learn a new 3D program, it is akin to learning a new language. I have ZERO interest in learning a new 3D program like Blender, after hanging on the C4D learning curve cross for many years. The time invested learning C4D is itself an investment, and as such jumping over to Blender would cost in many ways. 

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7 hours ago, Pinin said:

You  were talking like if MAXON is evil now but seem to agree the reason was something from 20 years ago.

What are you going on about ? When did I say MAXON was "Evil" Have you lost the plot ? I was asking why Jops said MAXON were "skimming funds off" .

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1 hour ago, David Davis said:

Personally, I intend to avoid C4D subscription as long as possible and at all cost. Fingers crossed MAXON will continue to sell perpetual upgrades for a few more versions and I can jump off with my perpetual hopefully on something like R24 before the sub dives under the water. I also imagine droves of C4D perpetual users will be purchasing that final perpetual upgrade like mad. 

I could foresee myself far into the future subscribing for a year if I landed a large project and could pass on the cost of the annual sub to the client. For small bread and butter projects, in a subscription only world, the final perpetual license version I land on in the upcoming musical chairs scramble would have to suffice. I fully support MAXON and their efforts, I wish them maximum success so we can enjoy future Cinema4D updates as the company thrives, I do however question how I can involve myself in their future growth based on my own purchasing power. 

People rambling about migrating to Blender should remember that C4D users invest thousands of hours and years learning the nuances of C4D. It takes a long time to learn a new 3D program, it is akin to learning a new language. I have ZERO interest in learning a new 3D program like Blender, after hanging on the C4D learning curve cross for many years. The time invested learning C4D is itself an investment, and as such jumping over to Blender would cost in many ways. 

 

For the hobbyist who has never made a dime off of the software, annual maintenance costs do add up but the beauty of maintenance over subscription is that you are actually "owning" something at the end.  With subscriptions, what I was once paying for maintenance now just gets me a right-to-use for a limited time (1 year).  As you don't own it, once you stop paying it goes away.

 

I would imagine that most digital enthusiasts like myself probably have X-Particles or some other 3rd party renderer or any other plugin that has maintenance programs (DEM earth, etc).  

 

So when C4D was pre-subscription, you were paying $720 for C4D, around $300 for the Insydium maintenance programs, probably another $300 for your favorite 3rd Party Renderer, and you could easily set aside another $100 to $200 to support any new releases or updates from your favorite plugin developers.  Plus, you probably are going to want to keep your hardware up-to-date and plunk down close to $3000 every 5 to 6 years for a new computer/monitor, etc.  Therefore, for a hobbyist your annual costs to keep your software and hardware current come to easily ($720+300+300+200+$600) to over $2000.

 

Do that for 10 years and it is like owning another car (we do keep our cars for 10 years). 

 

But with software under maintenance, every year it gets up-dated.  Under a maintenance program, should you want to stop paying for maintenance, you leave the program with the latest and greatest of everything because everything still works.   If you did 10 years on subscriptions and decided to leave, you have to go back and hope your last perpetual license from 10 years ago still works on your current OS or GPU.  For any new plugins purchased over that 10 year period, there is no guarantee that they will work with your last perpetual license.  In short, you are still paying the same amount as with maintenance plans,  but should you leave a subscription program after an extended period of time you may not even have an old car to go back to...you could have nothing. 

 

So going on subscriptions in year 1 does not bother me....but I think long term.  What if 10 years from now and thousands of dollars later I decide I can no longer afford this hobby.  I then have nothing.  That is what really scares me and that is what makes me think about leaving it all now and going to Blender.  Yeah I lose all that time with training, etc.  but why invest long term in something I feel financially locked in to. 

 

"Stop paying and it all goes away" - that's not a good feeling to have with something that is supposed to give you enjoyment.  This is a hobby to me after all.

 

I do love C4D.  It is an awesome program in more ways than one and it is on a good trajectory.  But so isn't Blender and Blender does not make me feel trapped.  If there is any plan in the works that says "stay on subscriptions long enough and you won't leave empty handed", I would be all in as that is a win-win situation.  

 

But I don't think MAXON is thinking as long term as I am.

 

Dave

 

 

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