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BLSmith

C4D: Using Boole Results With Invisible Object

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Hi all. I have to slice a carburetor some 20-30x and upon trying to make my second slice, the entire carb body just disappears. I'm not sure how to properly slice this model efficiently and would appreciate you having a quick look at the video for an opinion on a potential solution. Thanks! 

 

Edit: I should note, disabling "high quality" in the Boole settings DOES work, but it makes the model look much worse and it shows very clearly in the render. 

image.thumb.png.e1b059fffea8af67087e30f99dd4c255.png

 

Link to example scene: (7MB) https://drive.google.com/file/d/19y2s_32ci3JSqgkN7hk3LLSSyClPpD3H/view?usp=sharing

This model was originally created in the CAD program ProEngineer (or CREO), converted in a 0.060 quality ratio in Polytrans64 to a STP file, and imported into Cinema4D.

 

Edit2: I did manage to fix this! Almost considered /Solving thread, but I am interested in hearing possible solutions for this problem if it happens again. My fix was to take the original STP model that was exported from ProE/CREO, re-import it to my conversion software PolyTrans64, increased the "Mesh tessellation precision" from 0.060 up to 0.010 (the highest level the program allows), exported it into C4D and replaced my previous Carb under my boole and it sliced just fine. 

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Funnily enough I am also on a client job at the moment in which I am forced to use Boolean Operations, but unlike you, I can't go back for better STEP reference 🙂 

 

I am getting things to work with a rather assorted variety of tricks and bedevilment, some of which seem to have no reason behind them whatsoever, yet *touch wood*, I do find myself winning most of the boolean battles I face.

 

In short my top boole tips are:

 

  • Do anything you can to avoid using them at all. But if it is unavoidable...
  • Aim for a solid boole first, so you get the inside of say carved lettering, but if that is not possible, for example if one of your source meshes is open, then still do the boole, but you will only get an intersection, and have to model indents yourself from that outline, which is still helpful.
  • Make sure the mesh you are cutting into has regular, even distribution of polygons and enough density.
  • Always break the phong shading along intersection lines

 

If things go invisible...

 

  • Move the source geo slightly.
  • Move the other mesh slightly.
  • Change the interpolation in any spline based geo to uniform / natural, and vary subsegment numbers
  • Have all the options in the boole object ticked to start with...
  • If that fails, turn off HQ, but then set and use proper phong edge breaks.
  • Better to turn HQ back on, and instead change the topology of the source meshes until it doesn't fail any more. This can be as easy as sliding 1 vertex or as complex as re-topologising an entire section, but if you are patient you WILL find something that works...
  • Spin edges to avoid counter-flow junctions and complex poles.

 

But not if it's animated booleans. That sh1t is just not predictable or reliable and there's really not much we can do other than find another way 😉

 

CBR

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If you need straightslices you could try it with a Voronoi-Fracture and use a Matrix object as the source.

 

Cheers, KWS

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  • Topic Author
  • Appreciate the comments guys. Looking like no matter what way you slice it (LOL puns are fun!), it's not as great as it could be. 

     

    Regarding @Cerbera (It's always nice to see you replying to my nutty questions hehe).

     

    Top Boole Tips:

    1. Regarding avoiding them: Unfortunately at my job it seems unavoidable. Lots of models, lots of hidden little compartments to cut away and unveil 😞
    2. Aiming for a solid boole: If you could expound on this ELI5 style. This unfortunately read to me like it was written in latin haha. "Solid Boole," "source meshes," "intersection," "model indents," I feel dumb. 
    3. The CAD data is given to me in STP file format, but I could get it in any format I'd like, this way historically has just worked but if there is a better way to get these files so they come into Cinema4D much nicer, I am all ears. Is there a 100% perfect way to import CAD data into Cinema4D? I am almost positive the way I import CAD data is messing up all the nice geometry: Engineer saves .PROE/.CREO filetype to .STP > I convert STP to .C4D using a third party program (PolyTrans64) with an external plugin from the same developer.
    4. Break phong shading across intersection lines: Would you be so kind as to rephase this, I don't understand the terms you've used. 

    If things go invisible: 

    • Moving the geo/other mesh slightly: This HAS worked for me in the past! I should have mentioned it. That being said, this particular model (one supplied in OP) is so complex I guess that it's darn near impossible to alt click the X position for example and move it a tiny bit and keep trying new slightly different positions because the lag time from clicking on the X/Y/Z position to it actually updating is not trivial, sometimes 20-30 seconds. EDIT Friday 2:08PM CST: On another boole in identical situation as this, where the object became invisible just a few moments ago, I shifted the object 3x from 179.994 cm > 179.995 cm > 179.996 cm and on the third time it worked. Took a while but glad I kept trying this! Woo!
    • Changing interpolation of sliced based geo to uniform: I've just been using a cube, would using a spline be better? 
    • Change topology of source: Interesting idea. So like using the edge tool and moving an edge a bit to see if it works? With this model though seems impossible because of the huge lag time (20-30s), and the very act of dragging a part of the model while its in the boole is impossible, and would have to be dragged out of the bool, chunk moved, and then put back in.
    • Spin edges: Sadly I got lost on this point.

    To @kweso

    • Thanks for this video! I watched it, it seems like you have a lot less granular control over where the slices are and while it does sorta work it doesn't appear to be a workable permanent solution. For example, with a Boole, you simply slide in an object that you want to cut away, and then throw it in a boole and your good. With this, you're needing to use a matrix object, which isn't located where the cut is going to be, and if you needed to make a cut like the one I picture below, it doesn't seem like a viable solution. Thanks for posting it though!

    Thanks guys for the comments. Since I have a better understanding what the solutions are, I will /solve the thread. The solution was based primarily on throwing the original STL file back in and upping the quality of the import 6x higher than what it was before, so when I exported it, it came with significantly more (polygons? edges? geometries? meshes? I don't know the term - I don't model ever) detail. Here's the comparison in detail from the import and here's the result. Thanks guys.

     

    image.thumb.png.442332d20b58b4694785d4fdbd5b756e.png

     

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    5 hours ago, BLSmith said:

    Aiming for a solid boole: If you could expound on this ELI5 style. This unfortunately read to me like it was written in latin haha. "Solid Boole," "source meshes," "intersection," "model indents," I feel dumb. 

     

    Sorry - in my drive for efficiency of explanation I sometimes forget to explain terminology. Source meshes just refers to the meshes you use in the boole object. A solid boole, is what booles (in subtraction mode) do when both of the source objects are closed volumes - ie if you are booling some text out of a surface, the result would be the whole Object B text cut out of object A. But if one of the meshes isn't a closed volume (like if you are cutting lettering out of a plane object for example, that cannot work, and so even if the mode is set to subtraction, you only get the same result as if you had it set to intersection, because the closed forms are required for the boolean to work fully. However the result you do get in these cases is still useful to some degree as you can model the rest of the subtracted text yourself based on the outline the result has given you. Does that make sense ?

     

    5 hours ago, BLSmith said:

    Is there a 100% perfect way to import CAD data into Cinema4D?

    No. The step format is not the issue in itself. It is the construction of the underlying topology by the CAD program responsible, whose oNLY aim is to provide a renderable polygon surface with zero consideration for topology other than its density. That is why remodelling is so often necessary on these meshes, because they are of such poor quality that no Cinema tools can rescue them, and in their current states they tend not to work properly with most of Cinemas subsequent operations and commands ! The mesh conversion programs sometimes do a better job of output than the native CAD equivalent, but I would say it is still a rare event that these will do substantially better in a practically useful way. You have merely been lucky in this case that a higher res conversion fixed your boole issue - that certainly won't be the case every time.

     

    5 hours ago, BLSmith said:

    I've just been using a cube, would using a spline be better? 

    No. Polygons are always better because you have more direct control of them. But a lot of people make objects out of splines that they then try and boole, so needed to mention it.

     

    5 hours ago, BLSmith said:

    With this model though seems impossible because of the huge lag time (20-30s), and the very act of dragging a part of the model while its in the boole is impossible, and would have to be dragged out of the bool, chunk moved, and then put back in.

    ...or the boole merely turned off while you make your edits ? You should be able to leave them in place while you do this.

     

    5 hours ago, BLSmith said:

    Break phong shading across intersection lines: Would you be so kind as to rephase this, I don't understand the terms you've used. 

    Don't worry about that one for now - it doesn't apply to your specific case here - is more general boole advice.

     

    CBR

     

     

     

     

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