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C4D simulation module needs some love.


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2020: Blender "2.82 update" gets new shiny MantaFlow fluid/fire/smoke simulation system.

2019: Maya "2019.2 update" gets new shiny Bifröst fluid/fire/smoke simulation system.

2017: 3DS MAX "2018.3 update" gets new shiny fluid simulation system.

201X: Houdini "every new update" gets tons of new shiny VFX related goodies "Dynamics/Ragdoll/Crowd/Fluid/Fire/Smoke/Particles/etc...

 

Meanwhile...

 

Cinema 4D: ...zZz...

 

Me thinking out loud, let me Dream !:

- New fluid/particle/fire/smoke system that can utilize all hardware capacity "multi-threaded CPUs or Multiple GPUs or both"

- Bullet engine needs to be updated to the latest version 2.89/3.0 ? (what version does C4D use right now ?) or maybe switch to something else like physX or maybe have both ?

- New ragdoll/crowd simulation system to play nice with the above future new shiny stuff.

- Improvements to hair dynamics, Cloth simulations and possibly more voronoi fracture goodness.

- Every module play nice with each other, no discrimination allowed è_é !

 

Reality:...

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I think the reason MAXON hasn't bothered with these modules for a long time is X-Particles. At least when it comes to fluid / particle / fire / smoke simulation that is completely covered by X-Particles and I don't think they could even come close to the functionality that it provides.

That said, yes, Dynamics could use some love. Especially the Soft Bodies are horribly hard to control and work with.

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You seem to have forgotten the new dynamics field forces added in R21.  A really good getting started tutorial comes from Chris Schmidt (Rocket Lasso) found here: 

 

 

Unfortunately, you are at R20 so it is no surprise that you missed this but Field Forces is probably the best thing about R21.  This addition gives some hints that MAXON may finally give C4D its own native fluid simulation solution...and if they do that then they also need to upgrade AR as well.  IMHO....AR needs more love than dynamics (yeah...they added a denoiser in R21 and better instancing in R20 but there is soo much more that can be done with lights, VDB rendering, GI speed improvements, GPU acceleration,  etc).  My hope is that MAXON did not abandon AR after they purchased Redshift ---- well, they can abandon AR as long as they don't charge extra for Redshift.

 

Field forces also works with XP so it just makes what is already an amazing plugin just that much more powerful.

 

Dave

 

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The thing is all the mentioned examples above have plugins/add on  available, but it didn't stop them from making their own NATIVE system.

- 3DS MAX have Phoenix FD, Realflow, FumeFX, Thinking Particles, the new TyFlow etc...

- Maya also have Phoenix FD, Realflow, FumeFX, along with crowd sim plugins such as Golaem crowd and MiArmy while having Massive as their native crowd sim system.

- Blender have Flip Fluids, Molecular script, etc...

- Houdini not sure they have any vfx related plugins judging by what they already bring to the table.

 

 

I mean C4D could make their own (from scratch) simulation system which would be great, or they can buy/license what already exist (like what they did recently with Ministry of Flat's UV unwrapping tool)

Maya did the same with Bifrost and Massive.

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I totally agree with this thread.
Not on the part of particles though. C4D native particles will never replace x particles which is an excellent if not the best particle system out there.
Extremely easy to use, great results. Same goes for TFD. Extremely fast and 100% reliable, the thing doesnt even crash. I dont even think voronoi needs anything more. C4d is a mograph software aint houdini, will never be vfx tool imo, so I try not to compare apples with oranges.

Cloth though + soft bodies, well they are way back from other software. Ofc the art directability of both is excellent. But cloth with collisions is simply not possible. Soft bodies with nice geo either. Only low poly stuff. 

Something like vellum, would make c4d a complete software for me. I am already learning houdini (i know marvelous) but both not by choice. I am forced cause c4d hits wall in that department.

Thanks guys for bringing this up. This year in IBC i spoke with devs they listened, but i dont think this is on their plans soon. And i think c4d shouldnt take any other direction rather than solidifying its main purpose: mograph

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ps. there is a misconception about other software. 3DS max (which i can speak for from my personal 15 year experience on it) has no power without its plugins. And actually now with tyflow things got to a nice turn. Every software except houdini needs plugins if u are serious about ur simulation work.

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I think having a proper particle system would be just to offer option A, when we alredy have a well functioning option B (X-Particles) 
When things are already so well integrated to the software, I dont see the point honestly. A lot of things you either need a plugin or another software (Marvelous, Zbrush, etc) 

The thing that I feel C4D needs more love is with Character Animation, since we dont have any plugin that can re-work that, or it is not something that can be done outside of C4D and used inside the software (character rigs, etc..). But then again, I might be biased, just because that is what I work with hehe.

Or a nicer bodypaint, since we already have a good layer system inside the texture making part...but we dont have symmetry.

 

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9 hours ago, thanulee said:

ps. there is a misconception about other software. 3DS max (which i can speak for from my personal 15 year experience on it) has no power without its plugins. And actually now with tyflow things got to a nice turn. Every software except houdini needs plugins if u are serious about ur simulation work.

 

Completely wrong. Lots of stuff can be done with Particle Flow. More than with C4D i might add.

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I'm pretty sure the guys at MAXON already know about most of the technical papers presented at SIGGRAPH for the past decade and all the different techniques they could use to make a nice "multi-physics" solver for Cinema 4D.

 

Lots of cool techniques (some geared toward more accurate/realistic behaviors where others are optimized for speed):

- SPH (Smoothed-Particle Hydrodynamics) - (Houdini, Realflow, X-Particles)

- FLIP (Fluid Implicit Particle) - (Houdini, Realflow, X-Particles, Mantaflow, Flip Fluids)

- PBD (Position Based Dynamics) - (Realflow)

- FEM (Finite Element Method) - (Houdini)

- PIC (Particles In Cell)

- MPM (Material Point Method) - (Maya "Bifröst")

- CD-MPM ( Continunm Damage - Material Point Method) - (SIGGRAPH 2019)

- ADMM-MPM (Alternating Direction Method of Multipliers - Material Point Method) - (SIGGRAPH 2019)

- HOT-MPM (Hierarchical Optimization Time - Material Point Method) - (SIGGRAPH 2020)

 

The list is too long to post here, so i will just put a few wild SIGGRAPH videos here ranging from (water/cloth interaction, water/hair interaction, cutting a piece of meat, baking some bread and cookies, shredding a piece of bread, lots of rubbery/elastic silliness and more...)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is so much new techniques and methods to have cool Simulation harnessing the power of Multi-threaded CPUs, Multi GPUs, AI, etc... just waiting for ppl to implement them 🙂

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