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BuddaZero

Turbulence FD Discount

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I am sure XPExplosia is a powerful tool but without GPU simulation TFD blows it out of the water. I can easily create sims of millions of voxels in minutes when it would take hours on the CPU

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    @3D-Pangel You're right. I'm using Redshift, and the last thing I was messing with was the Smoke settings, the HDR image I was using was making the smoke too white, so I thought I darkened the smoke, but all I did was made it less opague. I'm actually working on another simulation now. I'll do another one and mess with the shading a bit more.

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    @paulselhi You're absolutely correct. You may not remember, but I actually purchased your tutorials when I was doing the TFD Trial, and it helped me understand explosions quite a lot, and especially TFD, and that information actually translated over to Explosia, even though the parameters are different, the physics are somewhat the same.

     

    That being said, I have in my possession X-Particles, Cycles 4d [which I don't use anymore] because of a summer deal, as well as Redshift [which I'm in love with] because of the summer deals, a great bargain for the price. And since I paid for these programs, I see no reason as of yet to get TFD as another addition [I've spent so much dough as it is].

     

    I mind as well focus on X-Particles & Redshift right now. It's such a powerful piece of software, TFD only utilizes one GPU I believe, which is still faster, however XP, especially this year, has come up with massive updates for creative freedom, I won't be surprised if GPU support finally releases.

     

    If it doesn't, it'll be a shame, but as for my needs, explosions I do, yes, but  85%  of the time I want to create Nebulas, and for those, all I need is one frame to be rendered.

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    On 7/18/2020 at 10:29 AM, 3D-Pangel said:

    Not sure what shader engine you are using (C4D, Redshift, Cycles 4D)....but the ambient level of the smoke is too high and that is what makes it look cartoony.  The actual fluidity looks great and I do love the lens flare.  Also, if you feel that the motion is too light, there is a setting under the xpExplosia ---> Simulation tab called gravity.  Gravity controls the overall strength of heat, smoke and fuel buoyancy so if you want to DECREASE their buoyancy then you also DECREASE the gravity setting....which is a bit counter-intuitive (normally, things should get more buoyant if gravity decreases).

     

    Personally, I have found that creating the fluid motion is easy...but the real effort goes into shading and getting the density, temperature and fuel settings just right.  Working with actual liquids (for me at least) always takes less effort than creating that "perfect" explosion where hot fire turns to smoke as it cools.  That takes a lot of fiddling through the entire process (simulation --> rendering --> post processing).

     

    Dave

     

    I've spent these last few weeks learning about the Physics of fire and how to create certain flames. As well as Shading the Volume once it's complete. Here's a still of the first Explosia Render that I did, with the Density and Flames shaded correctly.

     

    explosia rs render.jpg

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    1 hour ago, BuddaZero said:

     

    I've spent these last few weeks learning about the Physics of fire and how to create certain flames. As well as Shading the Volume once it's complete. Here's a still of the first Explosia Render that I did, with the Density and Flames shaded correctly.

     

    explosia rs render.jpg

    If that is right out of the render engine....you nailed it.  The shading is perfect.  Looking forward to the animation!!!!

     

    Care to summarize  what you learned in a few bullets? 

     

    Dave

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    @3D-Pangel That is straight from the Redshift Render Engine, no grading applied, not even bloom.

     

    Explosia FX vs TFD: These past few weeks I've gotten to learn Explosia Fx, as well as Turbulence FD. Both have their advantages and disadvantages when dealing with Fire & Smoke, but in essence they're the same. For Explosia it works really well with X-Particles because of the use of Modifiers. Turbulence FD works with X-Particles as well, but there's a bit of a learning curve. TFD is very technical, whereas Explosia FX you can hop on it and not worry about the right values, its just plug and play. TFD has GPU rendering which is huge, if X-Particles had that, TFD would be less favored in my opinion.

     

    VDB & Artifacts: When I went over to TFD to redo the render that I did in Explosia, I came across a problem that I never encountered before, and that is Artifacts, mainly when dealing with Density/Smoke. The Artifacts [stepping] look like steps, like a Minecraft cloud. To fix this, you have to make sure that your Density values in TFD don't go exceedingly high, or to be safe, don't let them go past the value of 1. Example: If you set you Density channel to 1 in the Emitter, the value won't go past 1. However, when working with fuel in TFD, it adds Density every second. You can refer to the Jawset Fourm here where we break this down, and tell you how to tailor your channels: https://forum.jawset.com/t/getting-stepping-boxy-renders/1071/14

     

    I'm guessing the value setting in Explosia FX is the Explosia Tag, as well as the Physical Data in the XP Particles. Regardless, there's always some sort of stepping, even the first animation I did, however you won't notice it unless you're super close up, and/or looking for it obsessively.

     

    Voxel Size: A smaller voxel size means greater detail of your simulation, it also means longer render times. The new Upres feature in X-Particles is buggy. When I check it on, it does in fact change my simulations. My advice is that if you're Uprezing via Explosia FX, only have the Voxel Size changed, and all of the other values in the Upzezing option, bring them to 0. That way your simulation won't drastically change. I learned that the hard way when I checked on upzezing in Explosia FX, and my render was completely different.

     

    Shading Emission & Density in Redshift: If you're rendering the Density channel by itself, which then ties into the Scatter & Absorption Channels, then it's literally plug and play. If you're using the Emission channel however, there's a secret sauce to it. When shading the fire/emission, your Gradient, as well as the Advanced Tab is what you mess with to balance the smoke and fire look. With the Emission Gradient, I have two Black Knots to the left side. I take the 2nd Knot that's to the right and push it just a little bit towards the center, just by a hair. With that, the flames looks sharp and define. Also, if you want more smoke and less fire, taking that 2nd knot and sliding it towards the center gets rid of flames.

     

    In the Advanced Tab, playing around with the New Max values under Emission Remap Range can lessen the intensity of the flames, to give the density a more defined look, and messing with the New Max values in the Density Remap Range also brings out the detail in the smoke, BUT if you increase the value too much, you'll get Artifacts/Stepping.

     

    Once you know what each value and gradient does...then you'll have better control of the look of your fluids, and from there its an amusement park. I've attached stills of my settings for a explosion I rendered using Turbulence FD. Instead of rendering straight out of TFD to Redshift, I converted the bcf files to VDB, because the VDB workflow is faster [trust me, I did a lot of tests]. My theory is that TFD uses one GPU through Redshift, even though Redhsift can use more then one. It takes a long time to get what's rendered on file with a bcf file. However, VDB files are much easier to read it seems, even though the size if much bigger then a bcf file.

     

    Conclusion: Play with the simulation values and see what you get. Learn the terminology of these simulations, like fuel and desnity, so you'll know how they work together. To avoid artifacts, make sure your Density values aren't so high where you'll see stepping; lowering the voxel size doesn't fix the issue [refer to link to Jawset Fourm]. Shading you fire and smoke is the real key to "the look" of your simulations. Know what each parameter is and what it does. Here's a link to Redshift's Volume Render the explains to you what the options do: https://docs.redshift3d.com/display/RSDOCS/Volume+Rendering?product=cinema4d

     

    When its ready, I'll post the TFD explosion I made, which are from the stills that you see below.

    Screenshot (58).png

    Screenshot (59).png

    Explosion J.jpg

    Explosion K.jpg

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    That was a master's class in gaseous fluids - particularly the Redshift section which I am just beginning to grasp (having recently purchased it)!  Thank you!  The link you provided on VDB artifacts is a wealth of information.  Were the stepping problems you experience noticed in TFD or only when you tried to render with RS?  As for me, I always use a density value of 1 in TFD...not sure why but probably because most tutorials use that setting.  They rarely explain why though and this is the first explanation I have read (especially the post from Jascha Wetzel).  His caution about Fuel settings though and the Fit Range settings are invaluable.

     

    Again, thank you!

     

    Dave

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    @3D-Pangel

     

    Yes, the stepping problem only presented itself in TFD, it just so happens that I was using Redshift. But as I said before, I went back to my first Explosia Render, and there is some form of stepping, just very minor, and you only notice it if you're looking for it . It only matters when its showing clear as day, like this picture here. I even have a VDB cloud pack, highly detailed, but at some unnoticeable  corners, there's minor stepping. In recent tutorials, people used a  density value of 1. So, when you follow along those tutorials, those artifacts don't show up because the Density values are safe. Even current Redshift & TFD tuts, they always use a value of 1 in Density, so the problem never occurred. From my tests, having a value between 1 and 3 are ok. For the tight close up shots though, Density value of 1 is best.

     

    Before, I was following along this 6 year old tutorial where this dude was adding a Density value of 20 in the Fuel parameters, meaning, every second it was adding a density value of 20. By the end I had a Density value of 327, ridiculously high!  When I rendered that in Redshift, my Smoke looked so blocky that I didn't understand why [picture attached]. I created that topic in the Jawset Fourm, and if you'll look you'll notice my frustration at first, haha! When it was explained to me and broken down, I did some new tests and then I started to understand how it worked. I'm still learning though, but I believe I'm on the right track.

     

    The reason why that guy put a density value of 20 in that 6 year old tutorial, was because he was using the standard render, and for your smoke to appear more dense, he increased the values to an absurd number; that's just my theory. With current renderers however, the settings are sensitive, thus normal values are appropriate.

     

    I'm glad this information helped you, let me know if you come across any RS problems, and I'll do my best to answer them.

    vdb file.jpg

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    Here's my first explosion with Redshift & Turbulence FD

     

     

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