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Jobeyobey

Attaching object to moving points

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Hi,

 

I'm trying to create a singing mouth and think I'm pretty close, pretty sure I'm on the final hurdle: Making it so teeth/tongue/gums only receive light that comes in through the front, as well as making it so they are only visible through the mouth.

 

I think I could get away with just attaching a box to the back of the lips, making it not visible to camera but visible to lights, also using it to export an AOV to use as a matte when comping. However because the points on the lips move, this might sometimes mean the lips go through the box, unless I set it far enough back. But then this means the gums/teeth would sometimes become visible. Again, I think I could possibly just spend a few hours going through in post and creating a garbage matte mixed with some AOVs to remove those issues frame by frame, but where's the fun in that?

 

In an ideal world, I'd be able to attach points on the box to the edges of the lips so it morphs with the lips and creates a seamless edge that adapts whilst the lips move. This would work perfectly as a matte to remove unwanted objects as well as to prevent them receiving light from angles they shouldn't. Is this possible?

 

Lips are animated via Pose Morph, if that affects how I would link the points on the face of a box to them.

 

Sorry if any of the wording I've used in here is wrong, my C4D/3D lingo could do with some work 🤓

Front-View.PNG

Side-View.PNG

Lips-Cafe-02.c4d

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No no, don't think of this as attaching a box to the lips, instead you are creating an extension of the lip model that then creates a cloth-type 'bag' around the other elements in the scene. This should have been done back while you were modelling, and not after your UVing and pose morphs, which are both going to need to get done all over again because you need to change the point count on the model now...

 

But having learned that vital lesson about the importance of forward-thinking in 3D, if you now remove the UV map, and the morphs, you can continue modelling from there to create a contiguous bag surface out the back of the lips... 

 

The key to this working is that you will use 2 materials on the single model. The bits you have now will remain that pink material, but the new polys you add that comprise the 'bag' will get a brand new material that only has a luminance channel, and is flat black so it can't be seen against a black backdrop, or reflect / respond to light in any way.

 

Then, having done that, NOW is the time to do your UV map, and then Pose Morphs. now your black bag can adapt to every movement the lips make, and nothing new has to be 'attached' to anything...

 

CBR

 

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    Whelp, not what I was hoping to hear but I knew I'd run into an issue like this at some point. I guess on the bright side maybe my poses will be a little cleaner now I've had practice with them.

     

    Thanks again for the help!

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    Indeed - learning 3D involves a lot of doing stuff again, so best get used to that and enjoy the fact that things are nearly always better the second time round 🙂 I knocked this up quickly in 5 mins to show you the sort of enclosed structure you are trying to create, using symmetry* which helps not only with modelling time, but also provides some extra clarity as we get a cut-away view for free... 

     

    862992081_lipbag1.thumb.jpg.b3d404cf262deb8e4ca0e26ade42d9b3.jpg  

     

    21640383_lipbag2.thumb.jpg.111654e3bd8e9e8589f4dfe15530f50e.jpg

     

    * If you do use symmetry when modelling this, don't forget to collapse that (select it and press C) down to a single mesh BEFORE you UV and PM !

     

    And while I'm in the 'Golden Tips Department', when you re-UV you only need to care about correctly unwrapping the pink mapped polygons - the rest of them won't be seen, so don't bother UVing them - tear off those UV polys, move them outside the UV canvas and forget them. Also a big time-saver that one.

     

    CBR

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    Yeah, I used symmetry to make the first pair of lips as well. I just had an idea that I might try just before restarting (It's just a personal project for fun/practice, so I'm not too concerned about making everything perfect. If this was for something professional I'd certainly be starting again at this point!).

     

    The way I've rigged this is making ~12 different pose morphs for the lips for phonyms e.g. a, e, i, o, u. I've used Xpresso to rotate/move the teeth with a range mapper using the 0-100% of the poses, making them move differently for each phonym on the pose morph. I've also used the same method for the tongue as well.

     

    I might just quickly try doing the same for the invisible box - a different pose for each phonym and tie it with Xpresso to the lips.

     

    Then I think I can just parent all of them to the same null to move it round my scene.

     

    Thanks for the examples - I'll certainly be needing them after I find out in an hour my botch fix doesn't actually work 😅

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    The botch fix appears to have been a success! (At least until it comes back to haunt me when I get round to animating it all a bit more down the line)

     

    I used your luminance tip (or in this case incandescant as I'm working in Redshift) which has worked really well, thank you!

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