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Odd Silence


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3 minutes ago, Hrvoje said:

Cafe never had more members than now. Also the amount of daily traffic and unique visitors was never higher than now. As to why more and more people keep in shadows as oppose to being more vocal on forums that is something I don't have an answer too. If I had to guess on off the factors, most of people are simply looking for a solution for a problem they encountered and there are in fact a lot of available solutions on Cafe - so maybe they don't have to ask that much. Aside to that, some members which were very frequent posters went a bit silent in last period. Things will certainly become a lot more busy in September

good to hear, that the numbers are positive. Maybe the culture in the web is changing over time. And I also can imagine that people find much more answers right away then years ago.

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Cafe have 400 new members every month on average (starting 2020). Unfortunately vast majority just comes, gets the answer or not and then just leave. I tried to figure out over the years why is that and one of the reasons was there is no real content here, except questions and answers. I hope to change that with new video tutorials, downloa, gallery section and new spotlights on the home page, so that at least we have some content that is changing, hopefully that  will make people come back to see if there is anything new. I just wonder what would happen if we would be ever adverstised by Maxon or by us. I still waiting to hear someone mentions cafe on the streams. We are still basically hidden forum but people still manage to find us. Also, if there would be to much people asking I doubt we would be able to help everyone, then it would be way to much. What I hope is to see more new stuff inside gallery and that people actually engage in giving feedback etc.. Thats the area where I am a bit dissapointed. Seems like not many people have time to give away to others, but rather just take and leave. Hope things chage in the future!!

U-Render Quality Assurance Specialist | C4D Cafe Contributions

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I think that there is a lot of content here in the forum. Maybe it would be a good idea to utilize this. If a thread with a good question gets a good answer you could feature them and make some sort of question and answer area (basically a small tutorial) Copy the thread delete the unimportant answers  and voila. This features could be mirrored to twitter and facebook to get c4dcafe some publicity.

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Those are good ideas, but what people dont understand also is that we are just dudes, with full time jobs and private life. So adding more things to do around Cafe would be simply to much. If someone would like to take over social medias and update them regurarly, I am all for it. 🙂 

U-Render Quality Assurance Specialist | C4D Cafe Contributions

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3 hours ago, Igor said:

Cafe have 400 new members every month on average (starting 2020). Unfortunately vast majority just comes, gets the answer or not and then just leave. I tried to figure out over the years why is that and one of the reasons was there is no real content here, except questions and answers. I hope to change that with new video tutorials, downloa, gallery section and new spotlights on the home page, so that at least we have some content that is changing, hopefully that  will make people come back to see if there is anything new. I just wonder what would happen if we would be ever adverstised by MAXON or by us. I still waiting to hear someone mentions cafe on the streams. We are still basically hidden forum but people still manage to find us. Also, if there would be to much people asking I doubt we would be able to help everyone, then it would be way to much. What I hope is to see more new stuff inside gallery and that people actually engage in giving feedback etc.. Thats the area where I am a bit dissapointed. Seems like not many people have time to give away to others, but rather just take and leave. Hope things chage in the future!!

Interesting discussion and I think you nailed it when you discuss content.  The internet had made us a content hungry society.  There is so much content out there that people have many other choices to feed their need for knowledge.  The true value of the Cafe is in the expertise of its moderators and members to pretty much solve/answer any question that comes your way.  Going back and organizing all that would be a huge task and probably not yield as much benefit as the effort it requires.  The best way to deal with it is by looking forward  which means that whenever the tag "SOLVED" goes up, someone checks to see if the thread  has all the appropriate tags for easier searching later on.

 

Now, the other phenomena is the "lurker"....the people who visit but don't post.  That could be a symptom brought on by the dark side of the internet: bullying,  attacking those with views different than yours, etc.  That is NOT a big problem at the Cafe.  This is a pretty safe space thanks to our moderators who maintain the right balance of oversight in all discussions.  But, the Cafe is a unique place and its members are unique as well (and I mean that in the best way possible).  It probably takes a while for new visitors to feel comfortable enough with the community to actually post something.

 

Now, most other DCC companies have their own forums.  Is that the Cineversity forum for MAXON?  Maybe.  But should MAXON start to exert more influence on the Cafe via financial support, advertising, etc.  could we have threads on Blender, or Houdini?  Would there be as high a tolerance for push back on MAXON that we enjoy today?  You won't see those types of discussions at Cineversity (well...to be honest, I haven't looked for them at Cineversity but that would be a surprise if they were there).  

 

Relative to content, what happened to all the tutorials that used to be on the Youtube Cafe page?  Some have gone missing such as nodal materials, volume breaking, etc.

 

Dave

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4 hours ago, Igor said:

Those are good ideas, but what people dont understand also is that we are just dudes, with full time jobs and private life. So adding more things to do around Cafe would be simply to much. If someone would like to take over social medias and update them regurarly, I am all for it. 🙂 

for me you Guys don't need to do anything, besides keeping it running (and I am thankful for that). It just sounded like you wanted it to get bigger and asked for input. And maybe you can work on the bug that doesn't let you submit your response as long the advertising is blended in at the button. (btw. I have nothing against advertising) 

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I'd like to pick up the point of change in culture.
Before I continue, I'd like to stress, this is not a problem unique to C4D Café. It may even be less of a problem here, due to the efforts of our moderators.

 

To me it seems there's an increasing "everything's free" "take what you can and leave" consumer mentality. More often than not, users asking questions, do not even take the time to think about how to ask a question properly (i.e. which information is needed for somebody to provide an answer). So it already takes time to find out, what the actual question is. And then it seems to be too much effort to even say thanks. This may also be caused by people asking the same question on multiple forums and being done with it as soon as they received an answer in one of them, completely ignoring people may still invest their spare time in one of the others to come up with answers.

 

As an example I'd like to point out Cairyn's amazing work in answering programming related questions not only in this forum. Compare this to the poor contribution on his Patreon page, which actually provides even more useful content.

 

All in all a not very motivating situation.

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A lot of people moved to instant messages platforms like Slack, Discord or Telegram.  There are more local chats and communities.  And communities around educational platforms and personalities.

Also, as @MighT said above, people want instant solution to their problems, so they post question to every IM chat, and if  there is no answer after 15 minutes they go to google or forums. Not the other way around.

Also it's about the form of messaging. Forums are all about long thoughtful post, at least for me.  Chats -- for one line few words phrases, instant response and constant flow of messages, that create an illusion that something is always happening.  Compared to that forums are pretty slow and still. Like for most of the people there is not enough activity and life on forums, but they will not create that activity themselves. 

As for Neutron discussion, from what I've seen very few people understand what it is or can be in the future. And modern people are hard to surprise with anything. In last few years I've never seen a real discussion of new software features that attract a lot of people. Whining about subscription,  costs or Blender doesn't count, cause it not the features. It's almost like nobody really cares. 

 

It's very sad, because for me every new version of any software is interesting, some of them fun, some inspiring and give a hint to bright future. 

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2 hours ago, MighT said:

I'd like to pick up the point of change in culture.
Before I continue, I'd like to stress, this is not a problem unique to C4D Café. It may even be less of a problem here, due to the efforts of our moderators.

 

To me it seems there's an increasing "everything's free" "take what you can and leave" consumer mentality. More often than not, users asking questions, do not even take the time to think about how to ask a question properly (i.e. which information is needed for somebody to provide an answer). So it already takes time to find out, what the actual question is. And then it seems to be too much effort to even say thanks. This may also be caused by people asking the same question on multiple forums and being done with it as soon as they received an answer in one of them, completely ignoring people may still invest their spare time in one of the others to come up with answers.

 

As an example I'd like to point out Cairyn's amazing work in answering programming related questions not only in this forum. Compare this to the poor contribution on his Patreon page, which actually provides even more useful content.

 

All in all a not very motivating situation.

The situation wasn’t much different 20 years ago, there were always some going out of their way to help, and many to reap benefits without thanks or a second thought.

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it is same on Houdini forums, go out of your way to answer a question with a file included and get nothing. no it worked, no thank you - nothing. usually it is a one and done posting. 

the mods do stop multiple posts of same question on different forums on same site. 

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I try to stay away from the forums as much as I could do. Almost everything I need to know I can find it on google these days, or ask noseman on Cgtalk (wich I dont visit often either)

 

The reason, is because I got very annoyed about [ïnsert Blender] everytime a user posted anything about C4D.  I do use it , though, its a really great software. But this religious fanatism has drove me -and Im sure others- away, not from MAXON, but from the forums.

 

p.s. What do you know? its also on the user Avatars!

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