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16 minutes ago, Adrien said:

Is Neutron supposed to be some kind of new "back end" on steroid for C4D, and the object manager a simple "front end"?

Sorry I am not a tech guy and I struggle to understand what Neutron is or is not.  

Basically, yes. The Neutron node system is the basis for all new features going forwards. In its current state though it isn't something most people will want to use directly; it is super powerful but like any node system, not the kind of interface everyone would enjoy using. The next step to be taken is to create a new object manager which acts as a much more friendly, day to day interface for the nodes which should look much more familiar.

When everything is in place, you will be able to choose to continue your c4d life with a new object manager, benefiting from the huge speed increase and all the new user-created assets that will hopefully come from this. Or, as and when you desire, you will be able to open objects up and dive into the node system when you need more power.

 

The speed increase will vary from scene to scene, but the biggest gains will be in projects with large numbers of things, ie. objects, tags, keyframes, clones etc. These projects have always been held back by c4d's object manager implementation. If a project is held back by physics sims, then don't expect any speed improvements at all, that would need a new physics engine to help there. However some test projects are showing 10x speed increases in viewport performance, others are showing 1000x improvements. In fact depending on viewport settings and how well the new viewport turns out, some projects are showing north of 10,000x speed bumps in terms of handling large numbers of objects.

 

How well this all translates into real world performance will need to be seen, but what this all represents is the upcoming removal of c4d's biggest bottleneck. You'll be able to have a go yourself in the next release, but expect another release or two after that before it is well enough supported by render engines, plugins and internal c4d features before you'd want to start using it in live commercial jobs.

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Basically, yes. The Neutron node system is the basis for all new features going forwards. In its current state though it isn't something most people will want to use directly; it is super powerful but

Really?  Neutron....and not Neutrino?     I mean, which one works better for you?   This one:     Or this:     Honestly, you folks resonat

Although I don't post much these days I check in several times a week. Yeah I watched the Neutron preview and it looks awesome. Had MAXON released this while I was still using C4D I would likely still

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Nice addition.
C4D devs should keep in mind that the 95% of c4d users are not technical directors.
So eventually this has to run as a background process for object manager. And object manager should remain as is imo.

The strength of c4d is the ease of use. Showing this feature is nice to see whats going on under the hood, but the actual implementation is what matters.

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"...The only frustration is that it still looks like it will be another 12-24 months before this moves from 'technology demo'"

 

OK - let me revise that:
24 - 36 months

 

😥

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This is certainly an interesting feature (and perhaps also a solution to the priority questions?). It's also a huge challenge, needing integration with all existing C4D features. Hopefully the further development will be able to cover all of these (not dropping features that don't immediately fit the concept, like it happened with the parallax bump).

 

"Production ready" is a big goal in that context - we should not forget that some people rely on plugins, which probably need to be re-created from scratch for such a vastly different system. And then there is the Python code... where we first need any API integration at all (still waiting for an open API for the node editor), and then all scripts and all Python tags (...generators, fields, XPresso nodes...) must be re-done. XPresso too; in short, all programming stuff that relies on the basic structure of the scene. That'll be huge.

 

I would love to know what the relationship between the "new" core (that is still getting integrated with actual features) and the Neutron core is. Another completely independent replacement? Or was the base of Neutron already considered while working on the current core?

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9 minutes ago, MikeA said:

"...The only frustration is that it still looks like it will be another 12-24 months before this moves from 'technology demo'"

 

OK - let me revise that:
24 - 36 months

 

😥

And your conclusion is based on what? 🙂 

U Render Quality Assurance Specialist

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2 minutes ago, Cairyn said:

I would love to know what the relationship between the "new" core (that is still getting integrated with actual features) and the Neutron core is. Another completely independent replacement? Or was the base of Neutron already considered while working on the current core?

That's an interesting question... 

I think it must be already in tune with the Neutron? I mean, MAXON wouldn't go through a complete rewrite again after this last rewrite was just finished right?

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9 minutes ago, Igor said:

And your conclusion is based on what? 🙂 

Listening to the presentation yesterday, comments from MAXON staffers and Beta testers here.

Are you suggesting otherwise? : )

 

If so, I hope you're right and I'm wrong : )

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1 hour ago, thanulee said:

C4D devs should keep in mind that the 95% of c4d users are not technical directors.
So eventually this has to run as a background process for object manager. And object manager should remain as is imo.

 

He did state that the goal was to have the object manager essentially be the same as is, but under the hood it would be Neutron nodes. This sounds great to me.  

 

IMO nodes are everywhere now in a whole lot of different software.  The benefit is undeniable and you sure don't have to be a TD to get comfortable using nodes.  This is the best way forward and they will of course work hard on making great high end interfaces throughout the software. 

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32 minutes ago, Cairyn said:

I would love to know what the relationship between the "new" core (that is still getting integrated with actual features) and the Neutron core is. Another completely independent replacement? Or was the base of Neutron already considered while working on the current core?

The new core is not a singular thing. All the development that went into it was also the base for Neutron, the two go hand in hand.

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I have a different take on Neutrino.  I would NOT imagine that MAXON's new core that took years of development would only be limited to your basic primitives.  When you think about the architecture of a nodal system (essentially the visual representation of C++ which is an objected oriented programming language), you then have to ask why Neutrino enables massive object handling in the viewpoint.

 

This question leads me to conclude that the viewport is NOT managing data sets (coordinates, normal vectors, etc) in the traditional sense with Neutrino but rather instruction sets.  So with Neutrino there could be less "stuff" to push through the required matrix manipulations as you rotate the viewport.  Hard to explain, but hopefully you get where I am going with this.

 

All this leads me to believe (and again, this is all PURE SPECULATION) that Neutrino ALSO means that when it is fully implemented all modeling commands are nodal and as such 100% procedural.  This would mean 100% non-destructive modeling once fully implemented with the ability to make changes anywhere along the  node chain (or modeling history) and have the finished object updated.

 

In short....when you think of Neutrino, think of Houdini with C4D's interface and ease of use...and of course stability.

 

This could be a game changer in the DCC community.

 

But there are a couple of "minor" downsides and that has to do with handling non-procedural models.  They will of course not yield the same viewport impact.  There "may" be no capability to edit them using nodes (not sure, I would think not, but I just wanted to put it out there).  Also, at some point as nodes become more powerful, there may be some modeling capabilities that are ONLY available via the node system.  Again, I would think not...I mean look at the bevel tool improvements in R21 which were based on the new core - that thing can bevel anything without corrupting geometry.  It would also mean that your pre-R22 geometry needs to be perfect if you want it play well with the new node system.  Run the mesh checker!!! No complex poles.  No Non-manifold edges!  You get the point (again, not a major issue as you should be doing that anyway).

 

But these are minor issues to be sure....even if they are issues at all.

 

Also, props to the new paradigm of sharing MAXON's future development plans.  This should be applauded by EVERYONE regardless of whether or not each new feature tickles your fancy or not.  So I salute Mr. McGavran and Paul Babb for peeling back the curtain a bit.

 

Dave

 

 

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It is Neutron, not Neutrino 😉
As was pointed out in the Live Session by Rick, Neutron uses the new modeling kernel. It is not available in an identical manner in the Tech demo though, but the quality and speed advantages are there. The use and display of high object/poly counts is possible due to two main things. The blazing speed of Neutron when it comes to processing them and the equalliy impressive speed of the new viewport that Rick demoed with the fishes. The new viewport is part of the Tech demo and like the rest of Neutron not a feature yet.
As was shown in the webcast you can make use of objects modeled in classic Cinema 4D, like the Elephant, and modify them using Neutron.

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Really?  Neutron....and not Neutrino?  

 

I mean, which one works better for you?

 

This one:

 

image.thumb.png.34249ee31e2a7181fd33abe8415b4973.png

 

Or this:

image.png.bf287581b7e9334d54b3958125f80a7f.png

 

 

Honestly, you folks resonate more with the first one in my book 😀

 

Dave

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