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Pose Morph issues in Cinema R19+


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Hi,

 

I recently bought a new monthly subscription to Cinema 4D S22, but I've been having a big problem with it. I create Minecraft animations where the characters are made out of low-poly cubes and rectangles, and their arms and legs have sharp bends. In Cinema R18 and below, it was possible to extrude parts of the mesh to make it more 3D. However in R19 and above, if I try to do this, it messes up the pose morph and it creates odd-looking rounded bends in the modified mesh. This is a huge problem for me because all Minecraft character rigs are made prior to R19, and I don't know how to make my own. I would really like to find a way to fix this and it would be a huge help.

 

Thank you!

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Hi

 

When pose morphs are applied it always uses the base pose mesh to compare to the deformed mesh that's added as a pose morph.  If you decide the edit the mesh as in add or remove polygons while there is a pose morph applied it will mess things up as the pose morph was made from a different base level.  The mesh messes up because its requirement that a pose morph  point or vertex order is the same at all times.  Each vertex on the model is given a order, or number, and every time you edit it that point order changes. 

 

The problem with rigs is again the vertices that was present at the time the rig was bound to the mesh would change if you added more polygon, you would need to weight paint that extruded area to make sure its influenced by the near by joints.

 

I will look at r18 and see for myself but I dont expect the pose morph to break its own rules. If you can maybe show a video of how it is different between r18 and r22?

 

Would making your own be something that you would like to be able to do?

 

Send me a rigged Mindcraft character and Il take a look.

 

Dan

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2 hours ago, Rectro said:

Hi

 

When pose morphs are applied it always uses the base pose mesh to compare to the deformed mesh that's added as a pose morph.  If you decide the edit the mesh as in add or remove polygons while there is a pose morph applied it will mess things up as the pose morph was made from a different base level.  The mesh messes up because its requirement that a pose morph  point or vertex order is the same at all times.  Each vertex on the model is given a order, or number, and every time you edit it that point order changes. 

 

The problem with rigs is again the vertices that was present at the time the rig was bound to the mesh would change if you added more polygon, you would need to weight paint that extruded area to make sure its influenced by the near by joints.

 

I will look at r18 and see for myself but I dont expect the pose morph to break its own rules. If you can maybe show a video of how it is different between r18 and r22?

 

Would making your own be something that you would like to be able to do?

 

Send me a rigged Mindcraft character and Il take a look.

 

Dan

Here is a google drive link to the video example and the minecraft rig: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kKJ0Fr2NheevLwy2yYnCgFrz5qsSy6T3?usp=sharing

 

Thank you for your help!

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Iv just watched the video and what I see is possible the same rig, not sure as it wasnt expanded, but two different models with different topology between R18 and lower  and R19 and higher.

 

The rig is much more complex than I would have thought for such a simple character, so I can see why you cant make your own, not at that level with ease.  There are joints, bend deformers and Morphs involved.  If the area that is not defroming well after you extruded it was using joints or morphs then thats to be expected, you dont start modeling a rigged character once its bound to rig.

 

In this case looks like the arms are just bend deformer in which I took into r18 and r21, I extruded the arm and they react the same in both apps, they deform no different.

 

 

Dan.

 

 

R18 VS R21.jpg

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23 hours ago, Rectro said:

Iv just watched the video and what I see is possible the same rig, not sure as it wasnt expanded, but two different models with different topology between R18 and lower  and R19 and higher.

 

The rig is much more complex than I would have thought for such a simple character, so I can see why you cant make your own, not at that level with ease.  There are joints, bend deformers and Morphs involved.  If the area that is not defroming well after you extruded it was using joints or morphs then thats to be expected, you dont start modeling a rigged character once its bound to rig.

 

In this case looks like the arms are just bend deformer in which I took into r18 and r21, I extruded the arm and they react the same in both apps, they deform no different.

 

 

Dan.

 

 

R18 VS R21.jpg

In the pictures you've shown, I can see you've used the wrist controller, which only controls the last few polygons. The bottom controller of the arm is the IK controller, which is what bends the arm, and that will show you the different between R18 and R21.

 

Also, I'm not sure if I have to use the "Quote" every time I reply, do I need to or is it fine to just reply?

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Unless there is something specific that needs to be quoted in direct relation to my reply and there is nobody else pacititating then just reply normally.

 

As I mentioned the rig is much more complex than I would have imagined for such a simple geometry made character, the rigger has some skills there for sure.  Unfortunately it makes it 10x harder to diagnose a issue when you have to break down someone else's rig, especially if like me not a out n out rigger but understands the fundamentals of rigging, meaning I understand what Im looking at but it takes me much longer because I dont rig every day.

 

So If I had time I would determine if the area of the limb is being deformed by  a weighted joint, or a defromer, or both.  Either case the rules dont change between different versions of C4D.

 

1: Weighting takes into account the vertices at the time of weighting.  Adding more verts will not automatically have weighting information as they didn't exist at the time the bind process was done, in that case your need to select these new verts and weight them to the chosen joint, best done in weight manager. (see video bellow. You may need to pause video to read annotations)

 

 

2: Pose morphs like weighting rely on vertices available at the time the morph is produced, and its point order, same for Uvs also.  For this reason if you need to make modeling changes to add or take away verts dont Uv map it, rig, or add pose morphs. (see video)

 

3: Deformers such as the bend deformer work in the basis of area of influence and is not using a vertex map that sets the vertices to be influences as set.  For this reason you can edit geometry and still get decent deformation.

 

 

So I can only say from this that there is something else at play in which the rig needs a deeper look at.  Maybe its in the Xpresso?

 

Dan

 

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