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Cinema 4D for Realtime Workflows / Game art Resources + (C4D vs Blender vs Max)


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On 8/16/2020 at 12:08 PM, Shrike said:

As there is a severe lack of resources for cutting edge real-time asset creation workflows for C4d and as we use C4D for games I felt the need to give something back to the community, especially as it took me many years to learn how these things all work. (Link below)

Hopefully this helps other people and I hope MAXON will push more towards realtime modeling and baking workflows as real-time seems to be the future even for movies and VFX with the lines continually blurring, Plus it turns out that C4D surprisingly has very strong advantages in many areas over the typical real-time Modeling softwares (Blender, Max, Maya) nobody seems to know about in these circles.

 

https://polycount.com/discussion/212367/cinema-4d-for-game-art-game-development-resources-c4d-vs-blender-or-max/p1?new=1

(I hope it is ok to cross link, please comment here tho)

 

 

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Note:

 

C4D Has surprisingly many advantages over other software even for realtime / games and its smarter workflows can be leveraged for big advantages that were not so apparent at first, in our comparisons inhouse with Blender it did win strongly overall but is then sadly roadblocked by a couple of key issues:

 

- Lack of multi object UV editing (by far the biggest issue)

- Lack of Split Phong by UV splits (Essential for Baking, saves a lot of work)

- Lack of Face Weighted normals modifier (Popular and powerful current gen workflow)

- Lack of Normal editing / Conversion from normal tag to phong tag (would be nice but not cruxial)

- Lack of Usable Internal Baker (the current is on the level of the old UV tools at best)

 

We have a successful game modelled entirely in C4D with 95% rating and hundred thousand players, if anyone from MAXON is reading this, please message me if you want a report on pitfalls/C4D marketability for cutting edge realtime workflows, I would be very pleased to help.

I feel this is a really good study and persepctive about workflows within C4D and Blender, etc.
I've never faced these kinds of challenged you listed regarding UV, etc, but frankly, I dont think I had used the software the way you needed.


One of my biggest roadblock with Blender for instance, was animation. 
Being unable to achieve great results and fine tuning, edit multiple keyframe's values, or even same objects parameters at the same time, it was quite frustrating...
For a lot of other things, Blender has the upper hand, specially when it comes to character animation/ auto-weight, etc.. 
But yeah, this in-depth study about your personal and professional experience with the software is helptful to us all.
Thanks! 

Link to post

 

Glad you find it helpful! I hope to boost the search results so new users can find it. Especially all the phong and baking things can be very hard to learn, especially as resources are for other software usually.

 

@hvanderwegen I think you are repeating yourself there and I already answered to this. Somehow Possible (even if technically on par or even better) does not mean convenient, nor encouraged nor focused. Thats exactly the reason I make this thread for realtime workflows for C4d. Very possible, even better than others in some ways but very neglected.

 

 

 

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@ShrikeI realize, after re-reading my previous response, that it sounded a bit passive-aggressive. I apologize for that. Your perspective is interesting, even if I might not completely agree.

 

I have a tip for your Blender colleagues: have them install HardOps and DecalMachine. With Hardops installed hard-surface modeling becomes pure joy, and incredibly fast and efficient. And it has a complete non-destructive workflow (including non-destructive parametric primitives!). It will allow them to work as they work now, but non-destructive (or not) and productivity will shoot through the roof. Also includes a nice easy circular array, and a free version of KitOps for quick kitbashing.

 

Decalmachine is also an incredible useful plugin for hard surface modeling.

 

Both plugins revolutionized my workflow, and they are inexpensive. With some practice modeling speed increases 5 up to 10 fold (I kid you not).

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  • 3 weeks later...
1 hour ago, Shrike said:

Added a new video as well:

 

 

That’s gold, could you share a scene file? I would even think about uploading it inside Download section. Thanks for sharing! 🙂

U Render Quality Assurance Specialist

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  • Silver Contributor

Oh my god! I didn't realise the voxel size could be reduced in the Mesher with the adaptive setting!!

So I thought volume modeling was only useful for the odd object that couldn't be animated. 

 

Thanks for sharing!

 

 

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40 minutes ago, hobbyist said:

Oh my god! I didn't realise the voxel size could be reduced in the Mesher with the adaptive setting!!

 

I wouldn't get too excited 😕 Well it technically can, but actually, in its current iteration you probably wouldn't want to - as soon as you leave the 0% you lose your perfect surfacing, and unless you keep it very low (around the 1% level) this becomes a fairly untenable situation I find. Also there is a great difficulty in making material selections with volume builder meshes, so whilst it is unquestionably brilliant for some things, those things remain fairly limited until we get some more control over that edge flow...

 

CBR  

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  • Silver Contributor
15 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

 

I wouldn't get too excited 😕 Well it technically can, but actually, in its current iteration you probably wouldn't want to - as soon as you leave the 0% you lose your perfect surfacing, and unless you keep it very low (around the 1% level) this becomes a fairly untenable situation I find. Also there is a great difficulty in making material selections with volume builder meshes, so whilst it is unquestionably brilliant for some things, those things remain fairly limited until we get some more control over that edge flow...

 

CBR  

 

Yeah I just had a play around with a SNES model I done which was crazy dense. I could see at a certain point losing some of the indent details alright but even the 1% made a substantial difference. The material selection is not workable so had to keep that with the simple single colour. 

 

Still though, it's opened up options in some things that I previously wrote-off so I'm still very happy 😄

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3 minutes ago, hobbyist said:

The material selection is not workable so had to keep that with the simple single colour. 

 

With some effort you can sometimes make it workable, but it's usually more effort than most people want to put in. The secret to making it work is to keep the wireframe view on before you take your editable copy, and adjust smoothing / voxel size until you have a continuous edge loop around where your secondary material needs to be. You only need 1 ! Then you can Loop Select that later, then fill Selection to get the contained polys. It sometimes takes quite a while to find the settings that give you that perimeter loop, but they usually are there somewhere, though not always ! However, that has saved me on several occasions in the past.

 

CBR

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  • Silver Contributor
5 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

 

With some effort you can sometimes make it workable, but it's usually more effort than most people want to put in. The secret to making it work is to keep the wireframe view on before you take your editable copy, and adjust smoothing / voxel size until you have a continuous edge loop around where your secondary material needs to be. You only need 1 ! Then you can Loop Select that later, then fill Selection to get the contained polys. It sometimes takes quite a while to find the settings that give you that perimeter loop, but they usually are there somewhere, though not always ! However, that has saved me on several occasions in the past.

 

CBR

 

Awesome! Thanking you kindly! 🙏

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