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Maya indie

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3 minutes ago, MikeA said:

Interesting discussion.

I've been a pro freelancer for a long time. One of the main things that is rarely considered enough in these threads is the value of your time.


Why am I still using C4D? Do I think it's the greatest? No, I certainly don't - but it provides adequate tools to do what I need.  Are there better tools out there for me? Quite possibly: Maya, Max, Houdini, Modo, Blender... What about renderers? I use Redshift. Maybe Octane would be better, or Arnold, or Corona or...


The issue is time. There is an opportunity cost for that. I can earn, or I can explore. Every hour I spend learning a new software is an hour of income I loose. That is where the big cost is to me. I'd love to be able to spend time exploring alternatives, but it gets expensive in time - and therefore cost - very quickly. Learning a new package - or developing skills in the current one is a tricky balance to strike.


and the older you get, the more complex it is to find this balance...
Real world obligations, bills to pay, it becomes more difficult to just switch from software to software, even though 3D, once you learn it, it is easier to adapt..
But it takes time, specially when you've been working with a specific software for more than a decade - which is my situation with C4D.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I just found out about Maya Indie yesterday and immediately bought a license. I am a character rigger & animator and Maya has a historically strong presence in these areas. I did some research and it now appears that Cinema 4D is the most expensive annual subscription for an independent company/3D artist:


Cinema 4D: $719.04/yr
modo: $629/yr
Houdini: $269.99/yr
Maya: $265/yr
3DS Max: $265/yr
Blender: Free


From what I've seen, it seems Cinema 4D is the tool of choice for advertising agencies and freelance 3D artists. While those doing Mograph will probably continue with this subscription price, could a more affordable license be on the way to compete with Maya for the independent character riggers/animators? While C4D, in my opinion, has the strongest user experience of these apps, the Maya/3DS Max price drop has made doing character work in Cinema 4D a more difficult argument.

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I was pretty shocked to see Maya and Max costing 170 per month, that is 3 cinema licenses. Shuddering imagining paying that for max.

From our studio the only thing I noticed is that there is really no "greener grass", cinema definitely has a lot of strong upsides others can not match well right now

but clearly a lot of weak sides as well. Maybe if you are an char animator or something very specialized then maya could be better but overall as package I heavily doubt it.
There really is no best 3D app overall, far from it.

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On 9/22/2020 at 10:49 AM, cinomadic said:



Cinema 4D: $719.04/yr
modo: $629/yr
Houdini: $269.99/yr
Maya: $265/yr
3DS Max: $265/yr
Blender: Free



Actually the Houdini Indie can also be purchased at $399 for TWO years...thus $199 per year.


If you consider a 3080 GPU amortized over two years...that's $370 per year


24 month plan:

Blender + Houdini + 3080 Nvidia + $150 in plugins or digital assets in 2020 and again in 2021....... versus c4d. 🤣


Ah, but wait...one might have to learn something new!?


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13 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

If I was a professional using C4D to earn a living, then ANY subscription plan makes sense, especially if you have core employees and then need to expand for a particular job (eg.  Core employees go with the annual plans, transitional employees go on the monthly plan).  If your business is predictable enough, you could easily buy X more seats than core employees in anticipation of those busy times as the monthly rates do add up quickly.


But as a hobbyist, subscriptions are not preferred because you can never go back to your work should you no longer be able to afford the subscription.  This is a hobby after all and what is sad is EVERYBODY is moving to the subscription plan.  Just look at how quickly it can add up for subscriptions  in the C4D eco system (annual rates).


C4D - $720

X-Particles/Cycles 4D - $425

Greyscalegorilla - $399

Octane - $399

C4D/Redshift - $983

C4D/Redshift/Red Giant - $1200

After Effects - $252

Vue/Plant Factory - $525

Terragen - $348


That is a lot of rental fees.  Things can quickly add up for the hobbyist.  Hobbyists are different than the people who use this software for business for one simple reason:  Hobbyists like to go back to their old WIP's.  When we learn a new skill or master a new technique, we want to go back to something we did 3 years ago and make it look better.  Businesses don't do that unless the customer asks (and pays for) an upgrade to an old work.  Therefore, we  like our licenses to be perpetual because should we no longer be able to afford the upgrades, we still want the ability to revisit that old work.


Subscriptions cater to the commercial world.  Perpetual licenses cater to the hobbyist.  Unfortunately, perpetual licenses are not priced for the hobbyist. 


Hobbyists have been left behind by everyone but Blender.  What companies fail to realize is  that everyone probably entered this field as a hobby.  No one decides to make a big investment in CG (be it software, hardware and/or education) without at least trying it first.  Only after they have tried it and had some success with it  in their "hobby" years do they decide that they could be successful with it in a formalized educational curriculum  and then as a professional.  


Leaving the hobbyist behind with all these subscription plans is not a good long term strategy.  Autocad/Houdini have already realized that.  






Not gonna ask why a hobbyst need Redshift twice, but yes, for a hobby or  indies, sadly MAXON doesnt have anything to offer.


For professionals, though, C4D remains affordable (Houdini, Maya, Max are more expensive).


Blender is still free though, but its hard to change the workflow of a company. I mean, letting go an employee who has been in the company more than ten years and is already proficient in C4D is way more expensive.



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10 hours ago, cinomadic said:


That is not true. As mentioned previously, if the project is making less than $100K, Cinema 4D is the most expensive option.


You are wrong, because apart from the revenue / size of the project up to USD 100,000, the number of licenses is also important. After all, I showed the calculations above. After all, having a second partner is enough, and although you don't reach the 100,000 and you no longer qualify for any Idie program.

I'm sorry to you, but the truth is, it's hard to be a professional alone. Usually, when you develop and become a professional, you need to work in a team of at least a few people if you want to have a normal life, and not stay at work 12 hours a day, with no weekends and no holidays.

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3 hours ago, Arte said:


Usually, when you develop and become a professional, you need to work in a team of at least a few people if you want to have a normal life, and not stay at work 12 hours a day, with no weekends and no holidays.

Lol, really? I must be doing something right 😀

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14 hours ago, cinomadic said:


That is not true. As mentioned previously, if the project is making less than $100K, Cinema 4D is the most expensive option.

That depends where you live. Autodesk indie is nor global. Where I live, there is no indie version I can get.

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