Jump to content

Maxon Announces Cinema 4D R23 | Overview | Discussion


Igor

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 272
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Only commenting on the things I used. Scene nodes look promising (haven't tested), but more importantly again show a strong vision for the future. I also comment on the general outlook, MyMa

I had a surface level look at scene nodes but then digged into the past material nodes again and want to share some thoughts,  not so much about the functionality but the implications of the prio

Grateful I jumped off...and stuck w/plan for blender/R20. Will have soon saved nearly $2,000. Never had to fuss with broken plugins, bugs, hassles and modest upgrades. Already had Octane and Rizom UV.

Posted Images

  • Silver Contributor

  

2 minutes ago, tdpubs said:

I couldn't find Pro Render and some of my plugins have disappeared again. 

 

Pro Render has been removed from R23 - https://support.MAXON.net/kb/faq.php?id=108&lang=en_US

 

But they also say it's transitioned to AMD, so maybe it will be a separate render engine made available by AMD?

Link to post
2 hours ago, bentraje said:

Same here. Ever since Singapore distributor closed down, I have nowhere to turn to. I'm from PH. 
I really don't get the need for the distributor. 

We are already on a digital age. We can just buy/upgare directly.

I relate to your problem mate. It’s the age of Ecom and Asia Pacific is well ahead of the game. I don’t know why MAXON is so late on this. It’s just software, not a car or some material that I might want to check in a showroom before buying.  I guess MAXON has legal obligations towards some of their historical distributors, which might cost them hefty penalties if they terminate the contracts. 

Link to post

I have to say this has features I have been waiting tears for, especially as a character animator. Body paint isn't where they said it would be years ago but it did get some needed updates it seems. I am not keen on nodes still, it's not as wonderfully intuitive to me as it seems to be for most people but I see it as a step forward to a more modern program. The pose features are very close to nitro pose but more integrated and powerful. Sadly, I just don't have to money to go from V19 to this and won't in the foreseeable future and I am not going on a subscription model. So bravo to MAXON for finally getting up to speed on some things even if I won't be benefitting from them. 

Link to post
  • Silver Contributor
18 hours ago, DMcGavran said:

...You need to call so we can verify your current license and upgrade it.

 

Really?  Your systems can check our licence validity automatically. You can sell subscriptions over the internet. 

 

Oh... sorry, just hang on a minuite... I can hear an alarm ringing...

 

BS.gif.2eb73208583e56e962e440ece3303910.gif

 

 

I think there is a very simple reason you won't put it on the website for online purchase.

You don't want to.

 

Link to post

I gotta say, as a subscriber of C4D, and also owner of a perpetual license of R18.
Not having the upgrade informations available to all customers, and acessible online worldwide... as easy as it is to purchase a new subscription... feels like a intentional bottleneck, to filter out everyone else who isnt a subscriber.  

There has to be a way to integrate a new business model (subscription) without having to make perpetual users to feel like complete outcasts? 

Also, speaking from a subscription client perspective, I feel that we need a more transparent roadmap of the software, things that we can look forward to.
This update, personally for me, it isnt major to what I needed personally, comercially speaking. 
I dont use the premade character skeletons to any of my projects.
The viewport changes were okay, but the magic bullet looks thing feels more like a gimmick than an actual improvement on things we wish we could do.
There were no updates on NPR rendering, the toon shader remains untouched, no way to preview it on viewport without using interactive render region, that it is still..very slow to this day.

There are some nice quality of life changes, and Im happy for those. 
And I appreciate all the hard work the developers put into this, and I know it is no simple process. 
But yeah man... this expensive subscription..  going in blind to every update. \




 

Link to post
15 hours ago, DMcGavran said:

Sometimes I feel like you try and complicate things ūüôā

 

If you have an R20 Perpetual you can upgrade to R23 Perpetual for 850 Euros plus tax etc.

 

If you have an R21 Perpetual you can upgrade to R23 Perpetual for 850 Euros plus tax etc.

 

If you have an older license it is 1700 Euros plus tax etc.

 

There are different prices in different currencies.  We are happy to sell this to you as are our resellers.  Just contact one.   

 

We also are offering 25% off a 1 year subscription for a limited time for expired MSA customers.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

With all due respect Dave, I think you (=MAXON) tend to complicate things too: just have a proper section on the site telling visitors how they can upgrade to R23 when they own a perpetual license, show the price and add online purchases. That’s way faster and easier than having to call a reseller or checking a website where the information is completely buried, or worse, having to post a message on this forum.


Besides, most people did not  understand the jump from R21 to R23. Some of my friends who own a perpetual license thought they had missed a version. R22 would have been just fine for everybody don’t you think? 

cheers 

Adrien 

Link to post
  • Community Staff
7 minutes ago, Adrien said:

Besides, most people did not  understand the jump from R21 to R23. Some of my friends who own a perpetual license thought they had missed a version. R22 would have been just fine for everybody don’t you think? 

Yeah that was a weird move indeed. The special naming with S22 did make sense for me if the R23 was called R22 and not R23.

Visit my Portfolio on Artstation.com & Follow me on Instagram

Link to post
3 hours ago, FLima said:

I gotta say, as a subscriber of C4D, and also owner of a perpetual license of R18.
Not having the upgrade informations available to all customers, and acessible online worldwide... as easy as it is to purchase a new subscription... feels like a intentional bottleneck, to filter out everyone else who isnt a subscriber.  

There has to be a way to integrate a new business model (subscription) without having to make perpetual users to feel like complete outcasts? 

Also, speaking from a subscription client perspective, I feel that we need a more transparent roadmap of the software, things that we can look forward to.
This update, personally for me, it isnt major to what I needed personally, comercially speaking. 
I dont use the premade character skeletons to any of my projects.
The viewport changes were okay, but the magic bullet looks thing feels more like a gimmick than an actual improvement on things we wish we could do.
There were no updates on NPR rendering, the toon shader remains untouched, no way to preview it on viewport without using interactive render region, that it is still..very slow to this day.

There are some nice quality of life changes, and Im happy for those. 
And I appreciate all the hard work the developers put into this, and I know it is no simple process. 
But yeah man... this expensive subscription..  going in blind to every update. \

This was the main problem with being a Studio MSA holder in the past and paying a premium for that MSA over what Prime and Broadcast license holders pay and then finding out that the latest release has no benefits unique to the Studio version.  In essence, why am I paying more for the same benefits everyone else is getting at a lower price.

 

Well, at least under the MSA program and the perpetual license program, if you don't like where the program is going you can opt out and STILL have access to your current version.  Not so with subscriptions.  If you opt-out, you have nothing until MAXON releases an update you do like and then you can rejoin the subscription plan.

 

Interesting that you think subscriptions are expensive at $720. Try perpetual upgrades at close to or over $1000 - especially if you are a hobbyist.  I could do a subscription for 4 years and have nothing or just purchase a whole new license every 4th year and have something that I can keep and still save some money over the perpetual license plan and only costing $615 more than the subscription plan -- but you now get something you can KEEP!  Given their pace of development, the program doesn't change as fast as Blender.  Maybe waiting won't be that bad for me and in 4 years, the program will have something that everyone will like.  

 

For those of us that hate the subscription plan and shudder at the high cost of a perpetual license upgrade, starving MAXON of funds for 4 years may drive the change we all need.  Remember that this is a different economy right now (everyone is hurting: customers as well as clients in the entertainment industry).  MAXON has Redshift and Red Giant to pay for and probably have lost some customers with the transition to subscriptions.  So time is on the hobbyists side.  We just have to get out of the mentality of "I need the shiny new ball right away"!

 

Not at that price (near or above $1000).

 

Dave

 

"We are in the endgame now"

Link to post

Just wanted to point this out here as I'm sure people from MAXON are watching.

I've noticed a couple of issues regarding the current live streams on 3Dmotionshow.com

 

On the September 8th page the "MAXON News, Notes and Announcements" with David McGavran presentation links to a completely unrelated video, one that doesn't even feature David (see image below) It is also not present on the YouTube channel or the IBC 2020 YouTube playlist. 

 

Untitled-1.thumb.png.1924ae79a8a56e0b81f1094061996f67.png

 

There is also a missing talk from September 9th.

image.thumb.png.8d5395dfec34aa57557208e6e1a51f10.png

 

Just wanted to make the relevant people aware.

 

Check out my C4D tutorials at Digitalmeat.uk

Link to post

Ok, so I've had less than 24 hrs with the R23 demo but I can categorically say that Scene Nodes in r23 is nothing like Softimage ICE (and I say that as someone who still uses ICE on a regular basis today, many years after XSI's EOL). Scene Nodes actually feels closer to Fabric Engine than any of the other nodes based systems I've used over the years (I've used virtually all of them at some point in time!).

 

Less than 24 hrs is nowhere near enough time with Scene Nodes to make any kind of judgement call on it's capabilities but I will say that things feel closer to an alpha build than a 'technology preview' public beta build. And that's no bad thing in and of itself, as I think that MAXON need to expose Scene Nodes to the widest spread of C4D artists to help them make sense of where to go next with the system. Once I got over the shock of Scene Nodes not having a representation in the Object Manager or any of the other legacy UX elements for that matter, I've found exploring the system to be relatively straight forward once you get a handle on MAXON's tendency to rename generalised CG nomenclature to 'C4D speak'.

 

A lot has been made of the fact the Scene Nodes are the future of C4D as they don't use any of the legacy code base, and it really impresses when shifting large numbers of clones around the GL viewport; but I think it's fair to say, that in real world terms, Scene Nodes in their current state, are nearly as far removed from daily C4D use case scenarios as Bifrost Graph is to daily Maya workflows (SOuP is a far better example of an integrated Maya procedural nodes system).

 

One thing that I'm finding hard to adjust to, is the apparent lack of visual debug tools. Most procedural systems allow the artist to visualise geometry/point cloud attributes in the GL viewport. At it's most basic, this facilitates the display of component attributes such as point/polygon/curve attributes, but with the vast scope of possible value modulations in a procedural setup, the artist also values the ability to query values at any point of the graph. In the example below, I'm querying the values of particles after a re-scale operation. The large properties box labelled Show Values is the interface the artist uses to set up the 'attribute display' (this is achieved by right clicking on the data stream at point of need - in this example, you'll notice a green V between the Rescale and Gradient nodes.

 

On a more positive note, I was glad to see that the Nodes UI has a far clearer visual UX, compared to previous iterations. It's the only nodal interface that compares to ICE in terms of clarity and efficiency (Bifrost is horrendously wasteful of interface real-estate). But one small trick has been missed (this is a minor UX example, but it seemed apt to raise it here). You'll notice that there's a Scalar (float) node feeding into the Turbulence node in the screen shot below. Where this differ's in terms of UI/UX to R23's nodal interface, is that the value of the floating point value is displayed on the node itself. This means that the artist can see the value simply by scanning the graph (there's no need to open Turbulence property editor to see the value). This can be really effective in communicating key values in a graph for those occasions when an artist will be be returning to a scene setup after an extended period of time.

 

Anyway, I'll stop here as I'm keen to carry on playing with R23.¬†I have a feeling I'll be shifting a lot of my daily workload till after the weekend as there's a huge amount to grok, but I'm enjoying the journey so far. ūüôā

EYuf2O

Link to post

Really good post and keep it up. I was also missing any way to visualize data. A really striking omission.   There is so much that they can learn and use from ice. 
 

one thing that I have to mention is really stupid is the new icons. Can we please get an option to turn those Icons off? I don’t want to reads the fx icon 50 times in a node graph. And it makes the node name harder to read. 
 

also an unrelated note I like in c4d that we can change the color scheme of everything. Maybe I am missing something but I can’t find away to change the node editor colors.  
 

I’ll be revisiting ice a bit too while I play with  this and try to provide some more feedback.  It really could be something if they actually listen to us and bring some of the great ice features into the scene node editor 

Link to post
  • Igor changed the title to Maxon Announces Cinema 4D R23 | Overview | Discussion
  • Igor pinned this topic
  • Igor unpinned this topic

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

√ó
√ó
  • Create New...