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Maxon Announces Cinema 4D R23 | Overview | Discussion


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31 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

While I state that Blender gives us options, I guess it is also true that hacked software gives them options too (which is really sad).  

 

It really is sad. I LOVE paying for a software that I use a lot and that I enjoy. I have never met anybody that had problems with paying for something that they enjoy. But as I am bound to a budget, just like everybody else, there comes a certain point where I cannot justify the amount of money needed which is why my private license is going to be R21 for the foreseeable future.

 

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Only commenting on the things I used. Scene nodes look promising (haven't tested), but more importantly again show a strong vision for the future. I also comment on the general outlook, MyMa

I had a surface level look at scene nodes but then digged into the past material nodes again and want to share some thoughts,  not so much about the functionality but the implications of the prio

Grateful I jumped off...and stuck w/plan for blender/R20. Will have soon saved nearly $2,000. Never had to fuss with broken plugins, bugs, hassles and modest upgrades. Already had Octane and Rizom UV.

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1 minute ago, DasFrodo said:

 

It really is sad. I LOVE paying for a software that I use a lot and that I enjoy. I have never met anybody that had problems with paying for something that they enjoy. But as I am bound to a budget, just like everybody else, there comes a certain point where I cannot justify the amount of money needed which is why my private license is going to be R21 for the foreseeable future.

 

Agreed.  

 

An annual $1000 upgrade price is something I am NOT signing up for.  I would be perfectly happy just buying a whole new license every 4 to 5 years  than shell out that much cash for an upgrade given how slow MAXON is to release new features.   Also, this is a key year for MAXON.  This is the first year where people under the MSA program are now facing a choice: Subscription or Perpetual.   Business owners will choose subscription but I would guess that given how hard Covid-19 hit the entertainment industry, there may not be as many subscription sales in 2020 as there were in 2019.  The beauty of subscription for a business owner is there are no penalties for dropping a few seats and then adding them back in when you need them.  MAXON may find out that the subscription model is NOT a much of a guarantee of re-occurring revenue as they hoped.  It is not recession as proof as would be the MSA program where the penalties for not renewing the MSA program were higher future license costs.  Also, people like me are probably not too fond of the $1000 USD costs for a perpetual upgrade either.    So this will be an interesting year for MAXON.  On top of all this, they are either cash-strapped or in debt from their Redshift and Red Giant acquisitions.  Even in the best years, changing your revenue model to something that is never popular with users after two big acquisitions has risk.  Now throw a global pandemic on top of all that and it is NOT a pretty picture.

 

I do believe that time is  on our side and quite happy to sit on my wallet for the foreseeable future until something breaks our way be indie licenses or a more favorable perpetual license model for hobbyists.

 

Dave

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  • Community Staff
6 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

The beauty of subscription for a business owner is there are no penalties for dropping a few seats and then adding them back in when you need them. 

That is true as long as you assume people pay monthly.

Remember, if you want true montly payment you pay almost twice as much! I am pretty sure that most businesses will not take this route, but rather annual subscriptions unless they know their required licenses are fluctuating hard all the time.

 

Quote

I do believe that time is  on our side and quite happy to sit on my wallet for the foreseeable future until something breaks our way be indie licenses or a more favorable perpetual license model for hobbyists.

Yeah I am not happy that I don't have  the new UV Tools, but it's simply not worth the money for me. I'll just be using Blender or buy Rizom for that. I think even if I had it, I wouldn't pay it as long as there is no indie version available. I just can't justify spending this amount of money on something that doesn't pay me.

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18 minutes ago, DasFrodo said:

That is true as long as you assume people pay monthly.

Remember, if you want true montly payment you pay almost twice as much! I am pretty sure that most businesses will not take this route, but rather annual subscriptions unless they know their required licenses are fluctuating hard all the time.

 

You  forget Shrikes comments.  He praised the license manager for being able to shift subscription seats around within his business.  Therefore, businesses may find that due to their own financial outlook due to Covid-19's impact on the entertainment industry they may re-up the annual subscription for less seats then they had in 2019.  Remember, all those annual subscription seats are coming due this month as it has been about one year since they were first introduced.  If the business future is a little bleak for any studio, then they are going to drop a few to meet their own financial needs. If business picks up they can quickly add them but until that point they need to worry about their cash outlay TODAY as they are  all coming due. That is how I would plan it in periods of uncertainty because there is no penalty for downsizing now and adding back later.

 

What this all means is less  cash to MAXON today and an uncertain cash flow in the future.  That is why I say time is on our side.

 

Dave

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7 hours ago, C4DS said:

I am afraid they've already missed it big time. I'm out.

Sorry to hear that C4DS.  Your plugins are awesome.  MAXON should really offer reduced price licenses for developers or even free versions with a watermarked render output.  They are now the highest price software by far and the price for developers to keep upgrading to offer support is much too high and this really hurts.  Having more developers creating plugins helps everybody.

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regarding indi licenses there is another aspect that makes them unlikely.

David McGavran got CEO just 2 Years ago. 
So what is the goal for an ambitious new CEO? revenue!

You can't blame him for that, but customer satisfaction and a vibrant community are probably not that prominently featured in the target paper (although they wouldn't mind it). And, of course, the growth should be greater than that of his predecessors. In addition to short-term goals, such targets are often defined over 3 or 5 years. MAXON had quite good figures even before David McGavran. so you can assume that his goals are ambitious. Decisions that question these goals are unlikely to be made. If today some users switch to the competition and some universities prefer to teach blender because of fees, these goals are not necessarily in danger (the resulting problems will be seen later). But the indie license puts these goals in danger.

So it is unlikely, that we will see a indie license in the next 2 to 3 Years.

best regards

Jops

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9 minutes ago, Jops said:

universities prefer to teach blender because of fees

There are no fees, Cinema 4D is free for educational purposes, for students as well as institutions.

As for the goals of a new CEO, you can also say thanks to Dave for turning up the heat on the new core, something that has a huge and very long term benefit for MAXON and all users.

Lets face it, the old management did a good job, but they were resting on past success, something Dave simply does not. He pushes MAXON to stay relevant in the future.

I have no idea if we will ever see a Cinema 4D Indie or not, but i think it is blown out of proportion currently.

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I think if anything we'll see a more affordable MAXON One subscription to entice people into the entire ecosystem. It'd be kind of like a 3D/2.5D Creative Cloud.

The current offer to come off perpetual works out around 40%/50%? less than going individual subs, which is massive for anyone who already has Redshift and interested in the post-production workflow.

 

In saying that, I certainly would love to see an indie license option or more affordable yearly perpetual, but MAXON One looks likely King in the long term.

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I would be happy with the yearly price but being able to pay monthly.  I'm fine signing a contract for a year, but it's much easier for a lot of people to pay monthly.  And the monthly mark up is just too much.  I mean I'm still on an original titan with redshift.  I need  to save up money for some new hardware.. but with all the software prices it's hard and paying up front for year makes it harder.  I do hope to start making money one day with 3-D, but the cost of a hobbyist with two small kids and a full time job... it's tough.

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40 minutes ago, hobbyist said:

I think if anything we'll see a more affordable MAXON One subscription to entice people into the entire ecosystem. It'd be kind of like a 3D/2.5D Creative Cloud.

The current offer to come off perpetual works out around 40%/50%? less than going individual subs, which is massive for anyone who already has Redshift and interested in the post-production workflow.

 

In saying that, I certainly would love to see an indie license option or more affordable yearly perpetual, but MAXON One looks likely King in the long term.

MAXON One may be king for the professional user but as a fellow hobbyist, I do not see it.  In order to take full advantage of Red Giant, you need After Effects, which means Creative Cloud for $635.88 USD per year.  Total subscription cost is then $1,834.92 when you add in MAXON One.  Honestly, that is like buying a full license of C4D every two years.  Not sure how much of a discount you are expecting in the future for MAXON One, but right now that is a lot of cash every year to rent software (remember -- you stop paying you are left with nothing).  Add in other costs for this hobby like keeping your hardware up to date, purchase the occasional tutorial here and there or a few plugins (which also have their own annual license costs) and your hobby costs could easily rise to $3000+ per year.   You go this path, then you are locked in to some pretty significant costs each year if you want to keep pursuing your hobby.    You can lease cars for less than this amount.

 

If you can support all that as a hobbyist, then I would say you are one lucky person.

 

Dave

 

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Let's face it. MAXON doesn't care about whether a hobbyist is happy with their strategy or not, nor should they. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if MAXON created R23 solely to test the waters. They probably have a number of perpetual licenses they have to sell in order to make it worth creating R25 or whatever they want to call the next perp license. If they don't meet that number, no more perpetual licenses. So, I'm focused on the here and now. There is some cool stuff in R23 for $1000, but the new Nvidia 3080 is only $699. So, I'm thinking I can stay on R21 and get the new 3080. This way all my plugins still work too. Haha. Maybe a year from now R23 will be much less expensive if they've only sold a few. Who knows. 

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50 minutes ago, stoecklem said:

I would be happy with the yearly price but being able to pay monthly.  I'm fine signing a contract for a year, but it's much easier for a lot of people to pay monthly.  And the monthly mark up is just too much.  I mean I'm still on an original titan with redshift.  I need  to save up money for some new hardware.. but with all the software prices it's hard and paying up front for year makes it harder.  I do hope to start making money one day with 3-D, but the cost of a hobbyist with two small kids and a full time job... it's tough.

This is, and has been from the second subscriptions were announced, my biggest gripe.

I would really love to pay the monthly fee, but I simply cannot pay an entire year upfront, and the markup for the REAL monthly subscription is just insane.

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