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Maxon Announces Cinema 4D R23 | Overview | Discussion


Igor

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Only commenting on the things I used. Scene nodes look promising (haven't tested), but more importantly again show a strong vision for the future. I also comment on the general outlook, MyMa

I had a surface level look at scene nodes but then digged into the past material nodes again and want to share some thoughts,  not so much about the functionality but the implications of the prio

Grateful I jumped off...and stuck w/plan for blender/R20. Will have soon saved nearly $2,000. Never had to fuss with broken plugins, bugs, hassles and modest upgrades. Already had Octane and Rizom UV.

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43 minutes ago, DasFrodo said:

This is, and has been from the second subscriptions were announced, my biggest gripe.

I would really love to pay the monthly fee, but I simply cannot pay an entire year upfront, and the markup for the REAL monthly subscription is just insane.

Agreed.  Funny how they can do it for the billed monthly crowd at $89.  Not really sure what their concern is over monthly billing at the annual subscription price and I do not accept that legal mumbo jumbo about how leases work in various countries.  I would imagine that the US is a pretty major market and you could make it work here.  If Srek's comments about Mr. McGavran pushing everyone is true, then he can push the development of different versions of the license server for different regions.  Geeze...MAXON is supposed to be a global company after all.  Get with the times...hire a few accountants and people trained in global compliance or borrow them from Nemetshek.

 

You want to put some teeth into monthly billing at the annual subscription rate then do this:  Miss a payment (the $60 credit card charge is declined for whatever reason that month) then you have one month to correct and make your missing $60 monthly payment.  After that month, your license is shut down and your annual subscription is blocked until its time of renewal.  This means that if you want to keep using the software until the end of your original annual subscription , you must pay the higher monthly rate of $89 (Sign up required on a month by month basis).

 

Yeah...that would put a shudder down my spine.

 

This is a big stumbling block that MAXON has to solve.  There is a higher probability of me being able to make a true $60 payment each month for as long as I am alive and able to use the software then there is for me to make a lump sum $720 or $1000 payment once a year.

 

Dave

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A question -

I have a license for 21

I don't use Cinema often enough to justify any of the subscription options 

I would be happy sticking with 21 except for the UV tools

Is there any path for me to get the new UV tools without paying a fortune?

Thanks for any advice you've got

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3 hours ago, srek said:

There are no fees, Cinema 4D is free for educational purposes, for students as well as institutions.

As for the goals of a new CEO, you can also say thanks to Dave for turning up the heat on the new core, something that has a huge and very long term benefit for MAXON and all users.

Lets face it, the old management did a good job, but they were resting on past success, something Dave simply does not. He pushes MAXON to stay relevant in the future.

I have no idea if we will ever see a Cinema 4D Indie or not, but i think it is blown out of proportion currently.

i have had this discussion several times. even with David. if a university cannot guarantee to offer a course for several years, the installation in a PC pool costs a few thousand euros. That's the reason why the students had to bring their personal laptops to install free student versions. but since this semester was my last anyway, they will probably continue with blender from now on.
I have absolutely nothing against David McGavran. But I think the statement is close to the truth. I didn't say anything nasty, just why I think there will be no indi license. I personally think it is much more important that old MSA customers (that already payed MAXON a lot of money over the years) who want to stay perpetual are not treated worse than subscription customers.

 

best regards

Jops

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19 minutes ago, arail said:

A question -

I have a license for 21

I don't use Cinema often enough to justify any of the subscription options 

I would be happy sticking with 21 except for the UV tools

Is there any path for me to get the new UV tools without paying a fortune?

Thanks for any advice you've got

Nope.

You can either pop a vein in your head by fighting with the old UV tools or you can cough up around 150€ for something like RizomUV. Or you can just use Blender for unwrapping, but I don't know how good the tools in Blender are for that.

Visit my Portfolio on Artstation.com & Follow me on Instagram

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I'm a hobbyist and without indie prices i don't see my future in 3D with you MAXON

$1000 for upgrade

$250 for X-Particles maintenance

+ other plugins maintenance 

 

$1250!

that is a 6 years of Houdini indie subscription price!!!

and you get particles + dynamics + nodes + Houdini engine out of box!

 

Houdini indie : 
1 Year : $269 USD
2 years : $399 USD

Maya indie : 
1 year: $250 USD

3ds Max indie
1 year : $250 USD

Blender:
Free!

 

Cinema4D:
1 year subscription: $719 USD
1 year perpetual upgrade: $1000 USD

 

Goodbye.

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3 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

MAXON One may be king for the professional user but as a fellow hobbyist, I do not see it.  In order to take full advantage of Red Giant, you need After Effects, which means Creative Cloud for $635.88 USD per year.  Total subscription cost is then $1,834.92 when you add in MAXON One.  Honestly, that is like buying a full license of C4D every two years.  Not sure how much of a discount you are expecting in the future for MAXON One, but right now that is a lot of cash every year to rent software (remember -- you stop paying you are left with nothing).  Add in other costs for this hobby like keeping your hardware up to date, purchase the occasional tutorial here and there or a few plugins (which also have their own annual license costs) and your hobby costs could easily rise to $3000+ per year.   You go this path, then you are locked in to some pretty significant costs each year if you want to keep pursuing your hobby.    You can lease cars for less than this amount.

 

If you can support all that as a hobbyist, then I would say you are one lucky person.

 

Dave

 

 

Pubs have been closed for months so that's a substantial amount of money saved for an Irish person. When the pubs fully reopen in 2 weeks though....hobbyist lifestyle is back in full swing baby! 😉

 

I hear ya though! I guess I'm just typing thoughts aloud 😆 

 

Today I can afford the upgrade or subscription, but next year I really wouldn't know. 

I'm a fan of Red Giant Trapcode a few years before I am of C4D so I found it exciting seeing the Red Giant Complete included in the MAXON One for what is a good price when compared to individual app cost.

 

The pricing structure is probably more accurately described as enterprise pricing at the moment. Particularly those single month prices. There are certainly a lot of freelancers hurting right now that will be weighing up the cost of these subscriptions more so than any hobbyists. For us it's entertainment, a past time, an artistic expression. For freelancers it's the difference of been able to pay rent, put food on the table, or pay a bill during a global pandemic with ruined economies. Actually you might have already said something similar to that previously. When reading it back it looks familiar...soz

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, hobbyist said:

 

Pubs have been closed for months so that's a substantial amount of money saved for an Irish person. When the pubs fully reopen in 2 weeks though....hobbyist lifestyle is back in full swing baby! 😉

 

I hear ya though! I guess I'm just typing thoughts aloud 😆 

 

Today I can afford the upgrade or subscription, but next year I really wouldn't know. 

I'm a fan of Red Giant Trapcode a few years before I am of C4D so I found it exciting seeing the Red Giant Complete included in the MAXON One for what is a good price when compared to individual app cost.

 

The pricing structure is probably more accurately described as enterprise pricing at the moment. Particularly those single month prices. There are certainly a lot of freelancers hurting right now that will be weighing up the cost of these subscriptions more so than any hobbyists. For us it's entertainment, a past time, an artistic expression. For freelancers it's the difference of been able to pay rent, put food on the table, or pay a bill during a global pandemic with ruined economies. Actually you might have already said something similar to that previously. When reading it back it looks familiar...soz

 

 

 

 

No worries.  I had to laugh at your first line though!  I feel your pain!  We all do.

 

But you get it...this can be an expensive hobby that has no practical applications other than feed your own soul.  My brother has wood working as a hobby.  A real master too!  Yes...he probably spends close to what we spend on his hobby but when he is done his wife has a dining room set.  Far more practical.  😉

 

Dave

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19 hours ago, Shrike said:

Untitled-1.jpg.1d7281027faed88c1d67c2bf0906a263.jpg

 

 

 

Remesher

We tried the new Remesher today and I have to say that this is absolutely excellent.

I tried a popular plugin mentioned in the thread before but the C4D remesher is definitely better and just works as you expect. Very clean and professional.

 

 

I'm surprised to see you rated the remesher so highly, I had an opportunity today to test run R23 on a workmates windows laptop and found the remesher to be very poor..to the point where it couldn't hold the shape of a simple cube despite any setting I played with.  Perhaps I'm missed something fundamental. 

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13 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

My brother has wood working as a hobby.  A real master too!  Yes...he probably spends close to what we spend on his hobby but when he is done his wife has a dining room set.  Far more practical.  😉

 

Dave

Although, with 3D printing, who knows ? We could certainly make a lot of actual things with Cinema 4D. That's not really my focus, but if I had more time it would be interesting to explore.

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Can Delta Mush be baked to weighting ? Is this even something that's conceptually possible ? I would love to use it to get better weighting with less effort but I think that most of the character stuff I do at work will go to Unreal Engine, which will only accept joints & morphs. I've been aware of Delta Mush since it started appearing years ago for Maya but not sure if it's something that can potentially pass between software except via alemic/ point cache (a non-starter for the kind of stuff I'll be working on).

Thanks if anyone has any insights.

 

Edit: OK, I found that it seems to be conceptually possible & in fact Maya has it implemented:

 

After a very cursory look at R23's deformer & documentation, I can't see a way to bake the Delta Mush back to pure weighting.

If I have any feedback, it would be to stress how incredibly useful such a feature would be, now that more & more of us are sending animation to game engines.

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10 minutes ago, Decade said:

Although, with 3D printing, who knows ? We could certainly make a lot of actual things with Cinema 4D. That's not really my focus, but if I had more time it would be interesting to explore.

I use Cinema 4D for technical modelling for 3D printing for 10 years now. Currently i use mostly volumes but Poly by Poly is a close second. I have created complete 3D printer designs that are printable (RepRap) and implemented them, as well as many smaller projects. For me Cinema is pretty much perfect for 3D printing.

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