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Nodes Road Map

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I would like to get some specific information if possible. Can we get things like Lagoa in the future nodes? Would MAXON be open to post a general roadmap for nodes? I am willing to wait and grow with system for a year, maybe two but certainly not 10. Nodes look very good, I am just thinking if there is gap down the road which will require to be filled by plugins or even worse, not being capable of filling the gap at all>




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I am not in a position to post roadmaps and i doubt that Dave will go into any real details here, but it is safe to say that future Cinema 4D will have a foundation in what currently is the scene nodes. If you think "What will be supported by nodes?" you are looking at it the wrong way, Scene nodes are the base, not an add on.

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That doesn't really answer me and I understand that core is equal to nodes. I am just wondering if core is already in state that we can have particles, physics, fluids, kinematics  made on top?

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55 minutes ago, Batz said:

That doesn't really answer me and I understand that core is equal to nodes. I am just wondering if core is already in state that we can have particles, physics, fluids, kinematics  made on top?

You can have what has been developed and that is what has been included in 23. Tech Demo means that we give it to customers before it is in a complete state. We do not expect it to be of commercial value to you. It is a glimps into what is coming, not the final product. As such it is simply to early to talk about the availability of this or that feature. It was made absolutely clear that scene nodes are the base for the future, not the present.

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As an avid observer of C4D over the years (I'm a consultant these days advising clients in the advertising sector on the ever shifting sands of DCC technologies), I'd say the biggest danger for Scene Nodes right now is that they create unrealistic expectations. One of the earliest entries on the MAXON corporate blog back in 2016 made a big deal regarding the engineering efforts towards a new Core, and if memory serves right, it was around the time of R13/R14 that talk of modernising C4D's Core was first publicly aired. So we're talking approximately 10 years here; on that basis users can be forgiven if their expectations are high with regards to the scope of new Core deliverable's (and their manifestation in Scene Nodes). 


I thought Rick Barrett struck the right tone the other day on the Rocket Lasso live stream when he acknowledged that the next 18 months or so will be full of growing pains when it comes to Scene Nodes. He made an analogy to a building site where hard hats will be a necessity for the foreseeable future.


I like Rick's understated approach as he's managing expectations as well as whetting appetites. 


The public launches of Scene Nodes and Softimage ICE could not be more different. The Softimage team choose to launch ICE as a toolset with a laser focus on particle effects and deformations. My Softimage workstation still has licenses going back to v7.5 which was the first release under Autodesk ownership (basically the same as v7 but with Autodesk licensing). I've just done a quick count of the Compounds included in that early release of ICE and it's close to 200.


ICE Compounds are very similar to Scene Node 'Assets' - they're simply a grouping of granular atomic function nodes that deliver a specific piece of functionality. They're main purpose in terms of the ICE launch strategy was that they functioned as an artist friendly introduction to nodal programming, but the artist needn't have a technical background to use them. Hopefully the artist would be curious enough to explore the Compound innards, but this wasn't compulsory and the artist could still get a huge amount of value from ICE without ever having to learn about the atomic level nodes.


The launch of Scene Nodes only contains a handful of compound 'Asset' nodes (mainly found in the Generator category). As a result all artists are thrown into the deep end without any arm bands or rubber ring to keep them afloat! I must admit, I'm not certain this was the wisest decision. As things stand I can see many C4D artists having a poke around Scene Nodes for a day or two never to return again. Unless you have a background in programming or in nodal systems such as ICE, the learning curve is a steep one. At least with a healthy quantity of compound 'Asset' nodes, the artist can access beneficial functionality even if their curiosity doesn't instantly propel them forward to learn how the atomic nodes fit together to create said beneficial functionality.


Any criticisms here are intended constructively as Scene Nodes are a great window into C4D's future.

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Yes, different to ICE, Scene Nodes are not an immediate solution, they are a glimps into the future. Don't be fooled by the small number of assets though, the nodes you see are just the tip of the iceberg. On coding level there is another layer of nodes available to programmers and many of the non asset nodes in 23 are actually still assets, but build one level lower. Of course these will not appeal to non developers, but it should make thinks more interesting and easier for plugin developers in the future.


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Constructive criticism is always welcome, especially on Cafe 🙂


Due to very things you mention we opted to label it as tech demo. Unfortunately there was simply no more time to build some more nice assets but I plan to make a few once some spare time is available. Of course, I will share with community. For example, a "Cloner" asset pops to mind or similar. Neutron is simply a TD tool at this point, but we indeed see assets as something of crucial importance.  Simple to use, human readable, user friendly node assets which everyone can use will certainly remove some of the apprehension artists have from using nodes at least up until the point where beloved manager workflow is delivered.


I urge you to post your findings whenever you feel the need to do so.  Even though design team did methodical, rigorous and extensive homework on this subject, feedback is always welcome!

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On 9/10/2020 at 12:21 AM, Hrvoje said:

Answer is simple - yes 🙂

Everything will be node based and also manager based for people that are not really interested in nodes. They will simply use managers as object manager and not care about node network being made in "background". As said in other topic one will be able to choose to work with object manager, nodes or both. Nodes are actual core in it's first iteration and everything in it is new, including primitives. We will not build new stuff using old tech.  You can use legacy object import node to import any "legacy" object into Neutron and anything it produces. I am really glad that you guys figured out how impressive nodes are, even at this early stage and am looking forward to any Nodes questions very much 🙂

Yes, I am excited about and appreciate the core of C4D being based on nodes and the managers as an overlay. I hope to see some point scene node tools such as annotation, graph management, and so on, and create quasi-node plugins.

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