Cinema 4D Indie version - What's your opinion about this?

[Nicensteiner 5]

Hi,

 

I'm working with C4D since 2005 as my main 3D package and I absolutely love the software. C4D has always been my favourite tool and I've used it for all of my productions. But I think MAXON is heading in a strange direction with their pricing policy in general and I'd like to find out if other customers share my opinion or if it's just me.

 

Firstly, I'd like to summarize my opinion:

C4D is just too expensive compared to other 3D packages and there should be a lower priced indie version of C4D for individuals or smaller studios with a revenue <100k per year.

 

Here's why:

 

If you compare the prices of the most common 3D packages, C4D's price is ridiculously high.

 

Maya Indie: 327,25 € per year
3Ds Max Indie: 327,25 € per year
Houdini Indie: 222,15 € per year (or 329,50 € for two years which is equal to 164,75 € per year)
Cinema 4D: 724,79 € (compared to Maya and Max: +121%, Compared to Houdini: +226%)

 

Basically C4D is about 121% more expensive than Maya and Max per year and 226% (or 340% if you choose a 2 year Houdini subscription) more expensive than Houdini.

And that's the comparison with the most basic version of C4D. If you need redshift for VDB renderings or just the GPU speed, it becomes even more expensive.

 

I don't take Blender's existence into account because it seems a little bit like comparing apples to oranges if you compare a free tool with a paid one. But nevertheless, Blender is actually a GREAT alternative to all other packages and I think it has become a very serious competitor.

 

I personally switched to a combination of Blender and Houdini Indie and I think it's a very powerful toolset. But I have to admit that I'm a little bit broken hearted and a C4D Indie version would make me very happy.

 

So what do you think about the pricing? Am I missing something? What's your opinion about this? I'd really like to hear about it!

 

Cheers,
Nicensteiner

 

[3D-Pangel 722]

1 hour ago, Nicensteiner said:

But nevertheless, Blender is actually a GREAT alternative to all other packages and I think it has become a very serious competitor.

 

I personally switched to a combination of Blender and Houdini Indie and I think it's a very powerful toolset. But I have to admit that I'm a little bit broken hearted and a C4D Indie version would make me very happy.

 

So what do you think about the pricing? Am I missing something? What's your opinion about this? I'd really like to hear about it!

 

Cheers,
Nicensteiner

 

Absolutely agree...just look at my avatar. Unfortunately, I think this will fall on deaf ears. 

 

Now, IMHO, indie is another word for hobbyist.   If you are a true independent one-person shop generating a revenue with C4D, then the subscription model probably works for you.  What you create is for clients and not for yourself.  Once the job is completed, your attachment to the work ends when the paycheck comes in.  But hobbyists like myself are attached to our work.  We want the option to hold onto what we have created without being locked into a yearly subscription cost.  For us, it is all about the end-game.  At some point, we will stop using the program and everything we have created is now gone as well.    That creates a sense of loss that keeps us from going with subscriptions.  Many on this forum are not hobbyists and have trouble understanding this point of view.

 

But if an indie version is to be considered, then there has to be some limitations to it.  Usually these are render size limitations  as that pretty much keeps anyone from doing commercial work with the indie package.  As for me, I am good with some limitations on render size in exchange for a lower annual perpetual license cost.  As long as it looks good on my monitor, I am good.

 

Not sure if the other packages you quoted have limitations or not with the indie version.

 

The other point I agree with you on is that I too love C4D.  It just feels like home.  It all makes sense. It has an internal logical consistency in how it is designed.  The software does NOT get in the way of creation.  That is tough to walk away from but at some point there could be financial situations that force that decision.  Honestly, I do fear that day.

 

But...as lofty as your objective is, be prepared for nothing to come of it.

 

Dave

[Arte 41]

There is a fundamental error in your question and survey. You only refer to a one-man creator.

 

It is enough to have a small studio and four employees, and you need a floating license and the situation becomes completely different.
 
Then the comparison becomes completely different:
Maya: € 2,231.77 per year
3Ds Max: € 2,231.77 per year
Houdini Core: € 1,685.00 per year
Houdini FX: € 4,218.00 per year
Cinema 4D: € 724.79 per year (compared to Maya and Max: - 67.5%, compared to Houdini Core: - 57%, compared to Houdini FX: - 82.8%!)

 

Therefore, the price of Cinema for studios is very competitive. Even if you need to buy an X-Particle or other renderer.

 

But of course, maybe for individual artists the price should be special with some limitations. The only thing I fear is that many people do not follow these restrictions. For example, 3D Max Indie allows you to participate only in projects up to $ 100,000, but freelancers with such licenses, although they do not earn such a qut, do 3D work for large large project clients and cause unfair competition.

[Nicensteiner 5]

1 hour ago, Arte said:

There is a fundamental error in your question and survey. You only refer to a one-man creator.

 

It is enough to have a small studio and four employees, and you need a floating license and the situation becomes completely different.
 
Then the comparison becomes completely different:
Maya: € 2,231.77 per year
3Ds Max: € 2,231.77 per year
Houdini Core: € 1,685.00 per year
Houdini FX: € 4,218.00 per year
Cinema 4D: € 724.79 per year (compared to Maya and Max: - 67.5%, compared to Houdini Core: - 57%, compared to Houdini FX: - 82.8%!)

 

Therefore, the price of Cinema for studios is very competitive. Even if you need to buy an X-Particle or other renderer.

 

But of course, maybe for individual artists the price should be special with some limitations. The only thing I fear is that many people do not follow these restrictions. For example, 3D Max Indie allows you to participate only in projects up to $ 100,000, but freelancers with such licenses, although they do not earn such a qut, do 3D work for large large project clients and cause unfair competition.

 

Yes, I understand that my initial post was somehow misleading. Thanks for pointing that out. I edited my summary in the first post

 

To clarify: I'm not talking about studios but about individuals (or very smnall studios) earning less than 100k per year with 3D work. Especially individuals who are using C4D to create assets for indie games or other realtime related needs.

When It comes to bigger studios, Cinema 4D's pricing is very fair. But I'm really disappointed that there's no indie version for smaller budgets. Other companies seem to act much smarter than MAXON when offering indie versions to certain customers.

 

Cheers,

Nicensteiner

 

[Arte 41]

Hi! @Nicensteiner

 

Thanks for the correction, but it is still incomplete. 3D Max and Maya in the Indie version are not only limited to a revenue of $ 100,000 a year, but also limited to one man! If you have a micro studio with two people you can't use the Indie version anymore. As for the gaming industry, many Indie games have budgets in excess of $ 100,000. With 3D Max Indie or Maya Indie, you are not allowed to participate in projects that exceed this amount. This is not really a high amount. The lower one applies only to really amateur productions. So if anyone thinks they will be able to work on models for the Indie game, and wants to do it with 3D Max Indie, they will be breaking the license very often. That is why I wrote about the danger of unfair competition.

 

It is better with Houdini Indie, because here you have the option of up to 3 licenses and you are not limited to participation in the project below $ 100,000, only revenue is counted.

[Jops 119]

I'm am not shure about all this. 

as much as i can understand the desire for cheaper software, i see the danger that if MAXON introduces something like this, it will be cheaper for individual users, but in return, according to the other software packages, much more expensive for everyone else, including smaller studios.

If they introduce a indie license the "normal license" will go up in cost, I have no douped about that. And when you look to the competitors, then there is quite some potential to a price increase by a factor or more.

But on the other hand I think MAXON is not so much threatened by the big commercial competitors. Rather, all commercial developers are threatened by Blender. In this respect, it would perhaps be more appropriate to release a free version, e.g. the version that is already included in the creative cloud. so beginners could convince themselves of the superior user experience, instead of learning Blender from the beginning.

 

Best regards

Jops

[Janine Pauke 61]

I'm in the first camp, have already switched to Blender. I used to teach Cinema 4D and now I teach Blender, mainly to beginners. MAXON is completely overlooking that group of people, they have nothing to offer them that doesn't cost a fortune. And for me, teaching Cinema 4D is no longer fun because I hate teaching to people who can't afford a decent render engine and have to resort to standard/physical. That's just painful. It's not like people don't have other subscriptions to pay every month, it all adds up, especially with all the addons that you need for C4D... All the good stuff costs extra! I'd rather use all that money to go on fun vacations and use (and teach) Blender instead. Would love to get back to C4D at some point (in addition to Blender) but I'm not getting my hopes up...

[joolsd 14]

The software companies (Not just MAXON) could try and help smaller people out a bit more, especially now that some people have lost their jobs. And these people are trying to get their showreels updated, probably not earning much at all.  Some industries like events, have crumbled and other are seeing a resurgence. Many feel priced out.

[willemzwaan 8]

I'm not bothered with the price because 3d work is my source income. My only frustration with this pricing model is that I can not use Cinema on a other computer while rendering. 

[Lonchaney 40]

2 hours ago, willemzwaan said:

I'm not bothered with the price because 3d work is my source income... 

Yup, I felt the same way too. Then business dropped off and I realized how expensive it really was.

[Push 29]

The majority of my work is through C4D, I'm the only one in our very small business using it, It is too expensive for me. I feel I'm stuck with it as I have many C4D project file over the last 10 years that I repeatedly go back to to update or use parts of in newer projects. Plus I don't fancy learning Blender again.

[thanulee 74]

 

On 2/12/2021 at 3:06 PM, Arte said:

It is enough to have a small studio and four employees, and you need a floating license and the situation becomes completely different.

Could u please clarify? Why each employee cant have one indie version?