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Are Ngons Aways Bad?

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  • Probably one of the first things I learnt when starting to model was that ngons are bad news. And in most cases I understand why.

     

    However, when watching the cmiVFX everything C4D tutorials I was surprised to see someone putting them to good use and saying it's ok. In one part of the tutorial he creates several holes in a surface and leaves the intermediate geometry as one big tasty ngon.

    The rule being that it's ok as long as it's on a flat surface. 

     

    I've attached an example.

     

    I was just wondering what others thought of this technique, it seems pretty useful to me, and renders fine, just feels like I'm doing something wrong every time I do it. 

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    Don't feel bad about using them. Like he said, on flat surfaces it doesn't matter. When I first started modeling all I heard was the same thing, that everything should be quads. And maybe in the perfect world where time is not an issue, everything would be modeled in quads. But in the real world, especially if you're making a living off of this, time is money and everyone is looking for the quickest way to get something done. The bottom line is that it just has to look good in the end. Experience will teach you when you can get away with certain things and when you can't.

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    If I remember rightly, the Zion dock model in the Matrix films had loads of (deliberate) ngons to try to save weight in what was an extremely heavy mesh. That turned out pretty well.

     

    Just depends on the situation. Quads are definitely preferable for deforming meshes.

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    If you're not doing Sub Division Surface modelling (HyperNurbs) then N-Gons are fine provided the N-Gon surface is flat. What you'll sometimes need to do is on the visible edges is break the phong shading otherwise you can get some shading artifacts.

     

    3DKiwi

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    For technical modelling n-gons are simply brilliant. They keep the geometry tidy and allow you to work much faster.

    For organic modelling they are a lot less usefull and for objects that need to deform they shouldn't be used at all, or at least turned to quads and tris before riging and animating the mesh.

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  • So I can sleep easy then:) Thanks for your comments, it's really insightful to know this. The amount of time I've spent trying to solve triangles and ngons (still not that good at it, I'm sure it'll click one day!). It's great to know it's not always necessary, and does allow for much faster work. I'll leave it to experience to know when I can get away with it.

     

    I guess if it works for the models in the Matrix it can't be that bad. Everything has its place hey ;)

     

    Thanks again to everyone for their help and comments.

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    Well,I would say if your model is full of Ngons,it is just bad habit. Why would you study in a wrong way?! Ngons are bad and thats it. I don't even think about having them even if they "sometimes" are "ok" to be on a model.

    Focus your modeling on easier things and learn to model right way. Why would you waste your time on doing sloppy models if majority of modelers do it with only quads(or sometimes triangles)?! And on this forum,are many good modelers,take a look at their models and meshes,why they don't have Ngons?! 

     

    My advice to you as a modeler,don't do sloppy models with Ngons. With time,skills will come. :)

     

    Cheers,

    Igor


    | MAXON Quality Assurance Specialist | 3D Asset Creatior | C4D Cafe Manager | Gamer in Heart | :compEnjoy:

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    iGor - I don't quite agree. Bad if you're Sub Division Surface modelling. Fine if you're hard surface modelling and surfaces are flat. That said you shouldn't be sloppy with your hard surface modelling and where possible you should maintain quads and or an even edge flow.

     

    3DKiwi

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    Yeah I have to respectfully disagree with you as well, just a bit Igor. I use them strategically sometimes to hold a hard corner on a hard surface model.

    This keeps me from having to subdivide the model a ridiculous amount just for the sake of some small detail.

    The point though is that I know how to get the same result without using Ngons - I choose to use them when the

    need arises and when my model will not suffer. Sometimes there just is no other way unless you want a crazy-dense mesh.

    Note the corners on the gear door and gear bay of this Mustang that I'm working on.

     

    Never on an organic model.

    post-87779-0-37115000-1374450049_thumb.j

    post-87779-0-06765200-1374450076_thumb.j

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    My point is Kiwi. If you are beginner,why would you go and learn wrong way? Its different when you are a pro and you know what are you doing. Doing it "wrong" way can lead you to make habits from that. And then,when you need to step up in your modeling,you will be stuck in ngons. If you ask me,make your habit to do it right way(all quads),then when you know what are you doing,do what you need to do. Make sense to you? :)

     

    Cheers,

    Igor


    | MAXON Quality Assurance Specialist | 3D Asset Creatior | C4D Cafe Manager | Gamer in Heart | :compEnjoy:

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    So I can sleep easy then:) Thanks for your comments, it's really insightful to know this. The amount of time I've spent trying to solve triangles and ngons (still not that good at it, I'm sure it'll click one day!). It's great to know it's not always necessary, and does allow for much faster work. I'll leave it to experience to know when I can get away with it.

     

    I guess if it works for the models in the Matrix it can't be that bad. Everything has its place hey ;)

     

    Thanks again to everyone for their help and comments.

    Learn how to model with all quads. Using them as needed is one thing, using them as a crutch because you don't know another solution is another.

    My point is Kiwi. If you are beginner,why would you go and learn wrong way? Its different when you are a pro and you know what are you doing. Doing it "wrong" way can lead you to make habits from that. And then,when you need to step up in your modeling,you will be stuck in ngons. If you ask me,make your habit to do it right way(all quads),then when you know what are you doing,do what you need to do. Make sense to you? :)

     

    Cheers,

    Igor

    Yep - we posted again at the same time. :)

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    Varanid,

    if you put together yours and mine post,than there you go. We pretty much AGREE on everything. Some strange force leading us to think a like. ;)

     

    Cheers,

    Igor


    | MAXON Quality Assurance Specialist | 3D Asset Creatior | C4D Cafe Manager | Gamer in Heart | :compEnjoy:

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