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BigAl3D

New Mac Pro Specs Out

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Guest Scottishcpt

He has a point.

 

Apple stuff is disposable today, with the exception of the Mac Pro, Mac Mini, and iPhone.

 

Everything else is sealed. The iMacs went from a modular everything-is-user-servicable design to a sealed construction similar to the iPad. You can't remove the LCD without tearing the sealant foam around the edges, which must then be removed and replaced by the service provider. The original iPad could be opened with a screwdriver, but the new units are now fused together (and not even Apple can service those tablets). Their laptops went from being completely serviceable (with 50 or 60 part numbers) to barely serviceable (with under 10 part numbers). The RAM is soldered onto the motherboards now, and they're using proprietary SSD drives. Even the battery is fused to the entire upper chassis- so replacing the battery on a Retina laptop means that the keyboard and trackpad need to be replaced as well (it's all a single part).

 

They could be building computers that would last 5+ years, but instead we're getting this fused and glued together stuff that is literally disposable. The moment your Applecare warranty expires (you did remember to buy it, right?)- sell that thing and buy a new one, because god help if you if a few bits in your RAM decide to go defective and you've got to buy a new motherboard. Might as well let someone else pay that bill when it happens.

 

-SC

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Talking more about what they have said of the hardware you will only be able to get the AMD firepro video cards with this.  A lot of render engines that use the video card for rendering only use Nvidia cards because OpenCL is not ready yet.  This means you are out in the cold if you want to use any of those render engines that require an Nvidia card for rendering.

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Guest Weezer

What do you mean OpenCL is not ready yet? It's an open standard that was designed in conjunction with AMD, Nvidia, Intel and IBM, was introduced in 2008, has been at a stable version 1.2 since 2011 and was updated to version 2.0 in July. It's been in Mac OS X for four years! How ready do you need it to be?

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^Oh please cut the ######.  You didn't have to bring any of this fud in here.  This topic has nothing to do with what ever it is you are selling.  What ever rumor or what ever bullshit story you read on the "interwebz" keep it to yourself because thats all it is, bullshit.

 

I will now laugh out loud at your comment..

:lol:

 

No Kidding. I love how he back-tracked on his own claims (shady warranty practices) as soon as someone provides a little evidence to the contrary. 100% made up nonsense. Talking about how it's "engineered", as if he has actual insights into Apple's engineering practices. If you love PCs, go use PCs. No one begrudges you that. But no reason to come in here and derail a thread that's important to a lot of C4D users just because you want to scare people off the platform. Go play with your awesome new Windows desktop that will never break and leave us poor Mac users with computers falling apart by design, alone. 

 

:lol: indeed.

 

 

He has a point.

 

Apple stuff is disposable today, with the exception of the Mac Pro, Mac Mini, and iPhone.

 

Everything else is sealed. 

 

They could be building computers that would last 5+ years, but instead we're getting this fused and glued together stuff that is literally disposable.

-SC

 

No, he really does not have a point, nor anything substantive to back up his claims with. If he had, he would've presented same. 

 

As to your points, don't conflate "not designed to be opened and upgraded" with "designed to break". Also you may want to look up the word "disposable"...

 

Princess-bride-image.jpg?resize=300%2C30

 

Either you guys are not honestly evaluating things, or you're just spreading FUD to derail the topic. The Macbook Pros from the last few years are some of the most sturdily built, well-engineered computers around. If the user takes care of them there is no reason they cannot operate seamlessly for 3-5 years, whatever the individual's upgrade cycle requires.

 

Some people act like it's unusual for computers to be replaced every 3-5 years (any platform). It's the norm, assuming you do not have any warranty issues (which the vast majority Mac owners do not -- hence the numerous JD Power customer satisfaction awards for various models). Bottom line: laptops and all-in-ones are not designed for owners to dig around on the inside, swap out GPUs, etc. They are designed to free the user from those concerns. People who want that, usually roll their own (in PC land / Hackintosh land). If you want that get a generic box and you can install any upgraded component you want, any time. The rest of us will use our computers to get work done, not measurebate and gripe that Apple doesn't cater to niche users who want to dig around in their laptops / iMacs.

 

The only people here who have room to complain are existing Mac Pro users who want to throw a bunch of hard disks inside the unit and swap out the GPU (or other PCI card) every couple years, but based on your comments I am positive the first guy is not a Mac Pro user and guessing you're not either. I, OTOH, am a Mac Pro user... and while I'm not totally happy with the new design, I'm willing to try it before I dump all over it as being designed to break or disposable. 

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Getting back on topic, some benchmarks have come out that indicate for single CPU tasks, the 4, 6, and 8 core models will all score similarly on performance metrics, because all scale to 3.9GHz in "turbo mode". We'll have to see what happens when production machines hit the market. I'm not prepared to accept benchmarks from "mystery sources" at this point (PCs using the same CPUs but with unknown components).

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Looks like the 8 core model is the sweet spot in terms of all around performance, except for the price.

 

4 -> 6 cores (+$289)

6 -> 8 cores (+$1140)

 

That's quite a big jump in price to add those last two cores.

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What do you mean OpenCL is not ready yet? It's an open standard that was designed in conjunction with AMD, Nvidia, Intel and IBM, was introduced in 2008, has been at a stable version 1.2 since 2011 and was updated to version 2.0 in July. It's been in Mac OS X for four years! How ready do you need it to be?

If you could tell that to the software engineers at Octane, that would be great.  What I have heard from my friend the software engineer, that has spent years programming a render engine for the GPU from scratch, is the OpenCL standard is not right to be able to properly support a GPU render engine as the OpenCL standard is right now.  Some GPU render engines do support OpenCL, but none of them are good.  This means no good GPU rendering for whoever buys this new Mac Pro.

 

To the rest of you.  Me and ScottishCpt have gave news as to things that are really happening and you seem to want to kill the delivery boy of the news.  We did not make these things up.  These are real things.  Don't kill the messenger.  I feel like I'm going to be strung up for saying the world is round here.  If you want to debate the facts I'm all for that, but so far all I hear is laughing and insults.

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Looks like the 8 core model is the sweet spot in terms of all around performance, except for the price.

 

4 -> 6 cores (+$289)

6 -> 8 cores (+$1140)

 

That's quite a big jump in price to add those last two cores.

 

It is definitely a big price jump and for us one that will only help when rendering, by about 20% looks like. Will be a tough choice. We'll see how the BTO prices shake out.

 

 

To the rest of you.  Me and ScottishCpt have gave news as to things that are really happening and you seem to want to kill the delivery boy of the news.  We did not make these things up.  These are real things.  Don't kill the messenger.  I feel like I'm going to be strung up for saying the world is round here.  If you want to debate the facts I'm all for that, but so far all I hear is laughing and insults.

 

As it's really happening? Real things? "Saying the world is round"?? :confused: I'll give you this, you're a very creative troll. E for Effort. F for Fail to convince anyone of your BS.

 

Show us FACTUAL data (not online forum posts) which show a decline in quality of Apple's phones and computers (more breakage, more warranty claims, etc) in recent years. The burden of proof in this ridiculous side debate, is on you. You brought it up and told people "not to buy" when everyone one else was content to discuss the new Mac Pro. Hey, look at it this way... we want our money well spent. So if you have actual evidence of your off-the-wall claims (that no other Mac users here seem to be aware of despite using and reading up on the platform every week), and not just opinion and heresay, show us. You may convince us all to buy HP Z series workstations and we'll send you a beer-gram as a thank you!

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Guest Scottishcpt


Some people act like it's unusual for computers to be replaced every 3-5 years (any platform). It's the norm, assuming you do not have any warranty issues (which the vast majority Mac owners do not -- hence the numerous JD Power customer satisfaction awards for various models). Bottom line: laptops and all-in-ones are not designed for owners to dig around on the inside, swap out GPUs, etc. They are designed to free the user from those concerns. People who want that, usually roll their own (in PC land / Hackintosh land). If you want that get a generic box and you can install any upgraded component you want, any time. The rest of us will use our computers to get work done, not measurebate and gripe that Apple doesn't cater to niche users who want to dig around in their laptops / iMacs.

 

The only thing that is unusual is that you think it's normal, and in fact the majority of the consumer base out there has been brainwashed into thinking the same thing. We should all be moving towards better hardware that lasts longer and longer, alleviating the burden of techno-waste on our environment as much as possible. Instead, we've got folks like you who are totally OK with the fact that companies like Apple are running amok outdating entire series of perfectly good computers because they don't feel like maintaining the drivers for that gear anymore. For all our technological achievement, the best we can do is to produce a machine that lasts 3-5 years?

 

Show us FACTUAL data (not online forum posts) which show a decline in quality of Apple's phones and computers (more breakage, more warranty claims, etc) in recent years. The burden of proof in this ridiculous side debate, is on you. You brought it up and told people "not to buy" when everyone one else was content to discuss the new Mac Pro. Hey, look at it this way... we want our money well spent. So if you have actual evidence of your off-the-wall claims (that no other Mac users here seem to be aware of despite using and reading up on the platform every week), and not just opinion and heresay, show us. You may convince us all to buy HP Z series workstations and we'll send you a beer-gram as a thank you!

 

I didn't say that there was a decline in quality. Stop putting words in my mouth. You are in danger of coming across as one of those "Apple can do no wrong" religious zealots.

 

I simply pointed out that the construction methods of their machines has changed. They did not change this stuff to increase the longevity or durability of their machines. They did it to make the machines thinner, because apparently thin hardware is considered "sexy" today. You cannot deny this, no matter how hard you try to ram your fingers in your ears and scream "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" at the top of your lungs. I've spent the past several years of my life servicing these machines in an official capacity and in that regard I'm probably the most informed person here to speak about the engineering and construction of Apple's recent machinery.

 

-SC

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