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R16


adamfilip

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What I want most :

 

- Decent auto-tangents on keyframes.

- Improved handling of many objects.

- Improved mutli - pass (Material ID pass, layers that actually add up to the beauty)

- Improved Team render (more reliable, remote job queue etc)

 

What I'd like:

 

-Retopo tools

-Improved UV tools

-New Cloth

-Some surprises

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Another new Bevel Tool :lol:

 

 

Sorry, but that's as valid a guess as any of the others here ;)

 

Anyone who thinks MAXON won't add a feature because a plugin already exists out there to do similar features already doesn't know their history. Remember they introduced the Hair module when Shave already existed for C4D? Or introduced Mograph when there was a 3rd party toolset with some similar features called Jenna?

 

If I was a gambling man I'd put money on Team Render being the focus this release, considering the stink it caused on the forums last year when it replaced Net Render I think a lot of users are hoping for big improvements to it.

 

 

Cheers,

Brian

 

Brian,

 

Well...that's really not what I said.  I think X-Particles has captured mind-share by opening up the possibility for C4D being used for VFX work -- and as such, possibly pulled some additional sales for MAXON.  Also, XP has been very quick to capitalize on that momentum by quickly integrating their plugin with TFD and Krakatoa  

 

Honestly, would Side Effects be looking to work with MAXON on product integration if this was not the case?  So far, Side Effects is only integrating Houdini with Maya and C4D.....Maya I can understand but C4D?  Has C4D ever been used in a pipeline that involves Maya or Houdini?  Maybe in the days when Bodypaint was a best-of-breed 3D painting tool...but not today.  By your own words, it is certainly not because of C4D's character animation or modeling tools.  I also do not recall ever hearing Houdini being used to enhance some motion graphics project.  I can only imagine that it fits in with the growth and integration of XP with TFD and Krakatoa (key tools that have established themselves for VFX work) that made that integration conversation between Side Effects and MAXON possible.

 

So unless MAXON does something "significantly better" than XP (which would be quite the task) , they won't waste resources updating TP when they have more important areas to work on.  That was my point --- not that MAXON won't ever update their program because a plugin exists

 

 

....though I do recall a comment from Paul Babb at Siggraph who squelched rumors that MAXON was going to implement a fluids module because there were already a bunch of plugins out there that do it better...but he's just the VP of MAXON America...so what does he know.

 

Dave

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Another new Bevel Tool

 

 

Nearly lost my coffee, I laughed hard!

 

Ever since Bevel was overhauled it's harder to name more things I really need and in which order I'd prioritise (apart from #1!):
 

- Faster more efficient Object handling!

- Team Render refinements.

- BP/UV Overhaul.

- XPresso to become the new ICE!

- Open SubDiv support.

- Unified Dynamics engine and refinements especially for robust Fabric sims - look at Marvelous Designer or nCloth.

- An immediate return to C4D's AMIGA days name - FastRay :D

 

The order of that list would shift around depending on my current project frustrations!

Selfishly, I'm sorted for Fluid and Particle work with TFD and XP so I'm not after an update in the core program, so screw you guys! ;)

 

 

cheers,

brasc

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Heh heh fair enough Dave!

 

The thing I always try to remember though is that the features that will get added this year were planned at least a year ago, probably much more as the development cycle is quite a long one.

 

The other thing that becomes obvious reading threads like this is that there's really a broad range of wants from different users, so what one person sees as something they should really update another person is less concerned about. My wants are the same every year pretty much, improved Timeline tools and better object handling, but the former I doubt is a priority for MAXON and the latter seems very unlikely since it would basically require a re-write of the core over one development cycle which is pretty much impossible. So I don't expect too much, and as a result I'm not too disappointed with recent releases (although for my work R13/14/15 are pretty much interchangeable apart from a couple of features). That's cool though, I have no problem with that and I find the same thing with Maya, I'm often working with Maya 2012 here on rigging jobs as that's what my clients may be using, even though I have 2015 here too. Same with Cinema, I'll use what the client uses as it's all about being compatible with their pipeline for me. I'm not romantic at all about my 3D tools, they are just that for me - tools to get work done and earn a living from.

 

I guess Bodypaint updates are a possibility, but are MAXON likely to have written a 'Mari killer' in 12 months? Probably not. And I'd say that the core users (motion graphics users mainly) probably aren't that concerned about texturing so I don't know. On the other hand MAXON could do something else completely unexpected like when they introduced Sculpting. I can't remember seeing any requests for that before it was released.

 

So.. these threads can be fun but in my opinion you might as well be reading tea-leaves as a method of predicting the future, only beta testers know for sure and they aren't telling.

 

Cheers,

Brian

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Not a C4D user - working with the demo (5 days left on my demo - serious sad face) but I'll throw my 2 cents in anyways. What I'd like for C4D is what I'd like for any of these sub d programs - a simple (emphasis on simple) CAD overlay set of tools - trim, extend, dimensions, etc. So a product designer could use C4D in the middle of the design process rather than at the end (to render, etc.) Something like LWCAD for Lightwave

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Heh heh fair enough Dave!

 

I guess Bodypaint updates are a possibility, but are MAXON likely to have written a 'Mari killer' in 12 months? Probably not. 

Cheers,

Brian

I would guesstimate that MAXON has been working on a Bodypaint update ever since Disney studio's released P-Tex back in 2009.  In fact, when it was released, there was a statement from MAXON that indicated they were looking into the technology.

 

Most technology companies (and I would consider MAXON to be a technology company) usually map out a "technology timeline" over a five year period.  I am sure Hrvoje has seen this....thus his statements of "great things to come".  Every year that timeline get's refreshed based on emerging technologies, their own internal research and/or market needs but it is only those items planned beyond the current release cycle that get changed when they do this review as they have already invested too much time into those features "locked" into the next release cycle.

 

Based on my experience with new product introduction for high-end telecommunication gear, I am pretty confident that MAXON does not just look only as far as the next release.  Things just take too long for them to do that...especially software development. So I really don't think MAXON thinks about new features with a 1 year horizon.  That is just too limited a time frame if you want to create quality product.  They are probably already developing "proof-of-concept" tools for features slated for R18, R19, etc. that are reviewed internally only.  Then once the proof-of-concept convinces MAXON that this new tool will work within the existing architecture, that is when they "commit to the concept", and then determine when to release that feature based upon available resources.  That feature is now "locked" into the plan for that release.  And nothing says that MAXON ONLY has a release plan for R16,  They may very well have release plans for R17 through R20 because this new product planning goes on for every feature on their technology timeline in parallel over that 5 year horizon.  Proto's on features planned more than two years in the future, internal pilots on things planned for one to two releases out, and extended beta-testing of those features in the next release  ... all going on in parallel.

 

Now what may happen is that something planned for R15 may have encountered stability issues that caused it to be scrubbed from that release and be moved to R16.  That's why we see lumpiness in certain releases...some are feature rich and others are lean.  Things don't always work out as originally planned.

 

So there very well could be a Mari killer out there with R16 .... you never know.  I just think that after 5 years of waiting, they should be about ready.

 

Dave

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I agree that they don't plan things in one year cycles, but I do think they quite often develop new features in that time. In many cases it's a single person that works on a single 'module' and I'm pretty sure Bodypaint is one such example. I could site other examples but I can't really say too much due to NDAs I signed. I was a beta tester for C4D for 2 years so I have had a peek behind the curtain ;)

 

Cheers,

Brian

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Im sure you cant release any feature details due to NDA but what about a release date?

My guess is late July or September.  I'm kind of leaning to September.  Don't know why.

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Don't look for any Pyrocluster or TP enhancements as there are  already plugins that do a better job in those areas (TFD and XP) and work well together and with other plugins like Krakatoa.

 

Yeah, I don't think they should bother with any flashy fx stuff like fluids, particles et al.  I can't imagine MAXON outdoing third parties on that front without neglecting everything else.

 

I try not to be too negative in general, but I despise Team Render (no offense to those who like it; everyone's different).  So I hope, I dunno, something changes there.  It's a huge reason for why I still have r13 on my personal station and on all the render nodes we have at work.

 

BP, materials, yes and yes, though mostly I'd like the latest VRay.  I guess Stefan is literally the only person in the world maintaining c4d-vray? O_O  Guess that's off-topic, though, since it's not necessarily R16 related.

 

As for topo tools, I guess that would be great, but zbrush is so powerful and relatively cheap... :shrug:

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I agree with 3D-Pangel, but I'd add: once in awhile companies have to break out of existing architecture a bit. At some point MAXON might need to push forward w/some "creative destruction." This kind of "creative destruction" could for instance put some old files or old plugins on legacy island. Or at a minimum require old files to be tweaked.

 

I entered the family around c4d 10, so the closest thing I've seen to this is linear color/light model, which caused old materials to 'break' if you opened them with the new linear light model.

 

I suspect that MAXON is a conservative company that fights to avoid this kind of thing. But at some point it might be necessary to advance the product.

 

Another way to make a big push forward is to develop an alternative technology in parallel. So for instance, perhaps MAXON keeps BodyPaint exactly as it is...but gives users a new alternative method to handle UV/textures. In this approach they don't break anything or disturb dependent code.

 

Perhaps my thinking in this post most reflects my experience with Apple: They burned floppy discs and optical discs when people were still using them. They blew up Final Cut and rebuilt it from nothing. Again...I suspect this is quite different than the culture at MAXON, but I'm just speculating: sometimes it is necessary to burn down part of the forest so that it can regrow stronger and better.

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Top Wish list:

1. BodyPaint replacement 

2. ViewPort improvements (speed and preview quality)

3. A couple new mograph modifiers

 

I use Turbulence/XParticles so have no needs there. And I'm invested in both Vray and Octane so have muted interest in rendering improvements. But if they want to surprise me with GPU-based rendering I won't complain!

 

As I've said previously: The Houdini "pipeline/partnership" seems to convey that MAXON is delaying or forgoing advances on fluids/particle sims.

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