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R16


adamfilip

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I am considering a return to C4d after leaving it at version 9. So I have a slightly different perspective (with a background in games and animation).

 

BodyPaint and retopology are sore points - if MAXON neglects BP this time around, they've lost that market for both game and film/broadcast work, seeing that competitors like Mari, Substance Painter, 3dCoat, zBrush and Mudbox wipe the floor with the current C4d.

 

The question is whether it is worth for MAXON to be competing in this market at all anymore.

 

New contenders like Substance Designer and Painter cater to the indie and pro games market with an extremely attractive business model, putting it within reach of just about everyone in those markets. They are also tightly integrated in tools like Modo, Maya, Unity, Unreal Engine 4, etc.

 

 

So perhaps it would be a better idea to focus on features that allows C4d to stand out from the crowd. Like it does with MoGraph. The material system really should be updated in my opinion - nodes are so nice to have. When I installed the R15 demo last month I was surprised (stunned really) to discover it still uses the same old material system.

 

Another thing C4d could use is an updated viewport interactive render option. Lightwave, Modo, Blender all offer a realtime preview that is more advanced and helpful. Add in GPU render support (Cycles), and it can be an incredibly convenient and useful feature in your workflow. The current implementation is okay, but can be improved quite a bit.

 

What concerns me more, though, is that certain features that are considered mainstream and rather essential for most work nowadays, are STILL only part of Studio: sculpting, rigid body dynamics, hair?! How on earth can they justify this in a market where Modo and Blender offer these as standard? I have been testing sculpting in C4d lately, and it is a reasonable implementation - certainly not something that should only be part of the "elite" deal.

 

Sculpting is now a common phase in modeling workflows - this should be part of all editions. It makes no sense at all to keep sculpting reserved for Studio users only. Insane. Madness. I am sorry, but MAXON is out of touch with reality here.

 

I discovered this only today, and my mind is still reeling from how incredibly short-sighted that decision really is. Almost surreal - as if MAXON is living in an alternate universe. I mean, you can get better sculpting for free with Blender, and far superior tools for far less investment with commercial sculpt tools like 3dCoat. For heaven's sake, Modo Steam Edition includes the sculpt tools, because this is an integral part of game asset creation!!! I cannot understand MAXON's reasoning here at all.

 

More or less the same with some of those studio/viz only "professional" render features like caustics and sketch and toon - from the viewpoint of someone who has been working with other 3d applications in the last ten years it is mind-boggling that these are only part of the more expensive Studio and viz versions.

 

It drives potential users like me (game and animation oriented) away, because Studio's pricing is unrealistically high for most indie developers.

 

Then again I understand MAXON seems very uninterested in attracting these type of users (to their detriment, I believe, because that market segment is growing unbelievably fast).

 

So my hope for R16 is that game developers will receive some love from MAXON with R16. They seem to have lost sight of that market completely. At the very least make those sculpt tools available in all editions. And add proper retopology tools. Improve the UV tools.

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I am considering a return to C4d after leaving it at version 9. So I have a slightly different perspective (with a background in games and animation).

 

BodyPaint and retopology are sore points - if MAXON neglects BP this time around, they've lost that market for both game and film/broadcast work, seeing that competitors like Mari, Substance Painter, 3dCoat, zBrush and Mudbox wipe the floor with the current C4d.

 

The question is whether it is worth for MAXON to be competing in this market at all anymore.

.....

So perhaps it would be a better idea to focus on features that allows C4d to stand out from the crowd. Like it does with MoGraph. The material system really should be updated in my opinion - nodes are so nice to have. When I installed the R15 demo last month I was surprised (stunned really) to discover it still uses the same old material system.

 

 

I think you make valid points. The games market is something MAXON seem to have happily ignored for years so is there any point for them to start chasing it now when it's pretty much sewn up by AD and Unity etc especially with the new Maya LT version which I believe is less expensive than C4D Prime. They'd have a serious uphill battle to get anywhere in this climate I reckon. So I think maybe they should play to their strengths, maybe a 'mograph 2.0' or something like that.

 

Who knows though, when they introduced sculpting for the first time my reaction was 'why'? Who would want that over ZBrush which has that market cornered and is much more powerful for that task. Of course lots of people argue 'ZBrush has a weird UI' but I disagree with them, I think it's very user friendly once you get over the initial learning curve. It's also enormously flexible for modeling and very fun to use. I love that it doesn't feel like a 'regular' CG app.

 

So yeah, it would be nice if R16 has some 'wow why did nobody think of this before' features instead of 'hey we added some more stuff similar to other existing programs'.

Innovate, don't copy.

 

Cheers,

Brian

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I was also wondering, Why the sculpting tools?, until they made it so you could use the tools on any mesh.  Now I find myself liking the tools a lot when making a low poly meshes for games.  I'm not sure if they intended it or not, but C4D has become a pretty great package for making video game assets.  You can do everything from making the original mesh, sculpting more detail for baking, to UVs, and texturing with a single package.  Now if they had a viewport game engine like Unreal, Cry, or Unity.

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I'd actually be interested in some small (fairly specific) tweaks to multi-pass.  I'd really like rendered multi-layer files to use the order and names defined in the render settings.  It seems wasteful to allow the user to shuffle these things around and rename them there and then ignore them entirely in the written file.  I'd love to be able to know at a glance which Object Buffer is my "Screen_matte" or "Buttons_matte." The names in an OpenEXR are even worse.

 

Material ID passes would be fabulous as would Render Layers.

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I was also wondering, Why the sculpting tools?, until they made it so you could use the tools on any mesh.  Now I find myself liking the tools a lot when making a low poly meshes for games.  I'm not sure if they intended it or not, but C4D has become a pretty great package for making video game assets.  You can do everything from making the original mesh, sculpting more detail for baking, to UVs, and texturing with a single package.  Now if they had a viewport game engine like Unreal, Cry, or Unity.

 

I agree with you, but there is one thing I just do not understand: why is sculpting limited to Studio only?! It should be part of ALL editions, seeing it's an integral part of game asset creation. Sculpting is nothing special, and ought to be accessible to users not willing or unable to dish out for the Studio version of C4d.

 

That makes no sense whatsoever.

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Scuplting is also included in bodypaint, for what it's worth. Which makes Bodypaint a better buy over Prime because it includes everything prime does (correct me if I'm wrong).  Annoyingly, it's left off MAXON's comparison chart but if it includes GI now like Prime, then it's a reasonably complete solution.

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MAXON need some features that it can use to help differentiate the various suites/levels it offers. if it includes everything in every package.. it would only have one package and it would be the same price as studio. so if you want that feature.. pay up :)

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I love these speculation topics when I know what's coming and the rest don't :slysmile:

 

Just wish I could participate.

Oh yeah, rub it in.  :-)

 

I am not sure what I would like to see, well other than things I've already brought up which I got shot down with.

 

edit:  ahhh I did think of one: when you name a material you get the whole name in the material manager instead of 5 or so characters.

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Scuplting is also included in bodypaint, for what it's worth. Which makes Bodypaint a better buy over Prime because it includes everything prime does (correct me if I'm wrong).  Annoyingly, it's left off MAXON's comparison chart but if it includes GI now like Prime, then it's a reasonably complete solution.

 

Ah, good one, I did not catch that on MAXON's website - you are correct. Well, if MAXON delivers a great modernized BodyPaint and improved sculpting tools with R16 I may come aboard again.

Thanks!

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Another new Bevel Tool :lol:

 

 

Sorry, but that's as valid a guess as any of the others here ;)

 

Anyone who thinks MAXON won't add a feature because a plugin already exists out there to do similar features already doesn't know their history. Remember they introduced the Hair module when Shave already existed for C4D? Or introduced Mograph when there was a 3rd party toolset with some similar features called Jenna?

S&H was a nightmare to use and the frequent changes to it's SDK made it impossible to support in the long run.

Mograph came after Jenna went belly up and Darf switched jobs.

Cheers

Björn

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