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R16


adamfilip

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First of all I think it's worth noting that I think MAXON has done a magnificent job since about release 12, some really notable improvements. It's just the one tool I keep coming back to despite some niggles (some of which have been flogged already). 

 

Ok, pleasantries out the way. Here's my boiled down improvements in the next 3 year cycle... 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

NEEDS (Things we need in order to simply compete with Maya)

 

- Linux version...please?

 

- Render Pass System!!!!!...Something like Render Elements mix with Houdini's Takes approach. It'd be great if in each 'take' we could record any property/user data/render setting/tag/layer/visibility/active camera etc ect. Also a deep scriptable API so we can catch a lot of this data for farm integration with python would be a must!

 

- Bodypaint/sculpting/UV/Retopo/Texture/Baking amalgamated environment. Bring it all together seamlessly and elegantly - the MAXON way...Who knows you might be able to sell that as the new Bodypaint side product and compete with the bigs boys.

 

- Overhaul of object management (ie. Cinema performs wonderfully with few dense objects (sculpting), but no so great with many, less dense objects.)

 

- Constant speed refinements. I know this is a constant battle and they are working on it, but it is crucial.

 

- Nodal material editor with plenty of procedural goodness, math, comp, image editing nodes, with realtime preview thumbnails. Perhaps you could keep your simple material system for 'mography' types along side an advanced material.

 

- Rewrite xpresso,  I know this is daunting and it could take years, but ICE is a good model I think. Multithreaded deep integration - scriptable procedural data/geometry creation, storage, manipulation. Houdini Engine is cool, but we need something to call our own!

 

- Rendering enhancements. Physically based BRDF, realistic spec, faster glossies, faster ao, map control over glossiness. cuda/openCL acceleration etc.

 

- Team Render is basically unusable for a team environment as it stands. I like the p2p idea but no job management for multi-users, priority, packet control. Flakey drop outs. You need to bring back the server or at least give us the option. Thankfully cmd-line exists.

 

WANTS (Stuff to we want in order to win over new customers to Cinema 4D)

 

- Dynamesh/Voxel/Mesh fusion tech fully integrated into the new sculpting/bodypaint environment. Intuitive topology independent sculpting/boolean modelling actually sounds exactly like the 'MAXON way' and the tech seems ripe at the moment. Powerful retopo/baking tools of course must accompany.

 

- Unify the Dynamics engines so cloth talks to rigid/soft talks to hair talks to particles etc.

 

- Animation system overhaul, more responsive timeline with hundreds of keys/curves. Friendly spline handle tools. Redo your animation layers/mixing system. Too cumbersome for most. Start laying the foundations for mocap workflow and editing/blending.

 

- Character object enhancements, namely speed with many characters in a scene.

 

- Get rid of your multiple complicated pricing brackets. Just 3 versions. And cheaper!

 

Prime - with generous arch/viz, mograph suite, rendering, basic bone animation, all general low level modelling tools/generators.

 

Bodypaint '2.0' - Sculpting/Voxel Dynamesh style creation/UV/retopo/texturing/baking environment.

 

Studio - The lot - inc dynamics, hair, high end character objects, all deformers, Bodypaint/sculpting module, cool new ICE style xpresso and material node editor.

 

Also, Prime should be completely backward compatible from studio, everything should load and work. Just not editable parameters perhaps... A completely free PLE edition of Studio would also be nice.

 

- Viewport 2.0 - realtime preview DOF/Cheap MB/high res textures. Great for previz.

 

- More mograph modifiers

 

Thanks...

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Guest gearbit

I'd like to see a mesh reduction checkbox within the dynamics tags (mainly soft bodies). Using cage deformers on text and proxy objects for high mesh objects seems like an easily avoidable workaround.

 

Also, it'd be great if we could save easing presets in the animation timeline. A diverse easing palette is such an integral part of motion graphics.

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Guest stefanlaub

 

"BP, materials, yes and yes, though mostly I'd like the latest VRay.  I guess Stefan is literally the only person in the world maintaining c4d-vray"

 

not really,  we have a team of 5 developers in meanwhile, and in addition chaosgroup does support us very good for the sdk things we need,

 

cheers

Stefan

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  • 4 weeks later...

First of all I think it's worth noting that I think MAXON has done a magnificent job since about release 12, some really notable improvements. It's just the one tool I keep coming back to despite some niggles (some of which have been flogged already). 

 

Ok, pleasantries out the way. Here's my boiled down improvements in the next 3 year cycle... 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

NEEDS (Things we need in order to simply compete with Maya)

 

- Linux version...please?

 

- Render Pass System!!!!!...Something like Render Elements mix with Houdini's Takes approach. It'd be great if in each 'take' we could record any property/user data/render setting/tag/layer/visibility/active camera etc ect. Also a deep scriptable API so we can catch a lot of this data for farm integration with python would be a must!

 

- Bodypaint/sculpting/UV/Retopo/Texture/Baking amalgamated environment. Bring it all together seamlessly and elegantly - the MAXON way...Who knows you might be able to sell that as the new Bodypaint side product and compete with the bigs boys.

 

- Overhaul of object management (ie. Cinema performs wonderfully with few dense objects (sculpting), but no so great with many, less dense objects.)

 

- Constant speed refinements. I know this is a constant battle and they are working on it, but it is crucial.

 

- Nodal material editor with plenty of procedural goodness, math, comp, image editing nodes, with realtime preview thumbnails. Perhaps you could keep your simple material system for 'mography' types along side an advanced material.

 

- Rewrite xpresso,  I know this is daunting and it could take years, but ICE is a good model I think. Multithreaded deep integration - scriptable procedural data/geometry creation, storage, manipulation. Houdini Engine is cool, but we need something to call our own!

 

- Rendering enhancements. Physically based BRDF, realistic spec, faster glossies, faster ao, map control over glossiness. cuda/openCL acceleration etc.

 

- Team Render is basically unusable for a team environment as it stands. I like the p2p idea but no job management for multi-users, priority, packet control. Flakey drop outs. You need to bring back the server or at least give us the option. Thankfully cmd-line exists.

 

WANTS (Stuff to we want in order to win over new customers to Cinema 4D)

 

- Dynamesh/Voxel/Mesh fusion tech fully integrated into the new sculpting/bodypaint environment. Intuitive topology independent sculpting/boolean modelling actually sounds exactly like the 'MAXON way' and the tech seems ripe at the moment. Powerful retopo/baking tools of course must accompany.

 

- Unify the Dynamics engines so cloth talks to rigid/soft talks to hair talks to particles etc.

 

- Animation system overhaul, more responsive timeline with hundreds of keys/curves. Friendly spline handle tools. Redo your animation layers/mixing system. Too cumbersome for most. Start laying the foundations for mocap workflow and editing/blending.

 

- Character object enhancements, namely speed with many characters in a scene.

 

- Get rid of your multiple complicated pricing brackets. Just 3 versions. And cheaper!

 

Prime - with generous arch/viz, mograph suite, rendering, basic bone animation, all general low level modelling tools/generators.

 

Bodypaint '2.0' - Sculpting/Voxel Dynamesh style creation/UV/retopo/texturing/baking environment.

 

Studio - The lot - inc dynamics, hair, high end character objects, all deformers, Bodypaint/sculpting module, cool new ICE style xpresso and material node editor.

 

Also, Prime should be completely backward compatible from studio, everything should load and work. Just not editable parameters perhaps... A completely free PLE edition of Studio would also be nice.

 

- Viewport 2.0 - realtime preview DOF/Cheap MB/high res textures. Great for previz.

 

- More mograph modifiers

 

Thanks...

Yes. Everything here needs to be done. I wish it was easy to add all those features and changes :/

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I love these speculation topics when I know what's coming and the rest don't :slysmile:

 

Just wish I could participate.

 

For your sake I hope this next release absolutely floors the lot of us, or else we may just have to disregard your good-natured gloats during future cycles as "stealth buzz" from MAXON. You've been talking this release up for a while now (while steadfastly maintaining your NDA mandate of course), suggesting some big things are ahead for this next release. ;-)

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I don't recall talking this release up. I wouldn't do that as it would be inappropriate plus if I was then no doubt some people could end up being disappointed as it hasn't got XYZ feature that they were hoping for.  I think what I have said is words along the lines of "Cinema 4D's best days are ahead of it". By that I'm talking about a time frame of more than 1 release cycle. If you think I'm referring to R16 then you're wrong.

 

What have been doing is when one of the next version speculation topics comes up is being a smart alec and teasing people. This is meant to be all good natured.

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I love these speculation topics when I know what's coming and the rest don't :slysmile:

Just wish I could participate.

 

Ok, we all know about the NDA and stuff...

 

BUT can you answer a simple question? (I'm sure it will not break your non-disclosure agreement)

 

So, the question is:

 

Are you happy with this release? (R16)

 

A yes or no is enough.

 

Cheers...

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I don't recall talking this release up. I think what I have said is words along the lines of "Cinema 4D's best days are ahead of it". By that I'm talking about a time frame of more than 1 release cycle. If you think I'm referring to R16 then you're wrong.

 

What have been doing is when one of the next version speculation topics comes up is being a smart alec and teasing people. This is meant to be all good natured.

Unless MAXON takes features away, C4D's better days will always be ahead of it....so I would say that you have safely preserved the covenants of the NDA.

 

Now as far as all the playful winks, nods, and knowing smiles go.....hey, your a C4D cultural icon so I guess that comes with the territory.

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Are you happy with this release? (R16)

 

It would be inappropriate to answer this before R16 is announced. I'll give you an answer after it's released if you're interested.

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It would be inappropriate to answer this before R16 is announced. I'll give you an answer after it's released if you're interested.

 

Unbelievable... 

But ok, I'll respect your decision.

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Unbelievable...

 

Entirely appropriate I think. You gave me 2 options. Let's ponder what would happen:

 

1. I say yes I'm happy with R16. You and or others are not when it's announced. You then think I'm a dick. You and or others agree with me. I'm a hero for breaching the NDA. I run the risk of being kicked off the Beta testing team.

 

2. I say no I'm not happy with R16. You and or others would almost certainly be apprehensive about it. Potentially this could cost Maxon some sales. Almost certainly I get kicked off the Beta testing team.

 

Nothing you or anyone else is going to get me to say anything about R16. Be patient, I'm sure the wait will be over in the next few months if Maxon announces it the same time of year as they have done the past few releases. You'll then be able to make your own decision whether it's any good or not.

 

What I can confirm is I'll be cheering for the German Football team in the World Cup final since Maxon is a German company :)

 

Dinner time. Time for a beer :)

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