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WHAT? no R17 thread yet?


bobc4d

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I hear they hardly communicate with the beta testers.

 

I'm pretty happy with the communication from Maxon from a Beta testing point of view. I did a brief stint of Beta testing for modo and they weren't all that much different. The difference between Maxon and Modo is Luxology (now The Foundary), management are moderately active in the forums.

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messed up refection

 

Sorry for the slight off-topic, but I've seen a couple of mentions of issues with reflection (I'm guessing this is the new reflection channel). Could someone briefly explain what the problem(s) is/are?

 

I've seen the Nick Campbell demo and it looked like a substantial advance.

 

Mark

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For R17 I wish MAXON would speak more! You know? On forums or put out events and talk about what they are thinking of the future, etc etc. No more "we can't disclose anything" talk.

 

Even Autodesk, which is way bigger than MAXON, talks here and there about what's coming, what they are doing. They have a PM (for Max at least) who appears in the forums when the topic get much attention, they have events about what's coming next (like this years presentations on SIGGRAPH), etc.

 

It's very important for a company to have a presence online and have a "spokesman", something like what Brad Peebler does. You may not like Brad, but I doubt you wouldn't want somebody doing the same things for MAXON (talking to users, posting on threads about the future, etc etc).

 

Yes please this!  Seriously, I don't want any new features, double down your resources on fixing TR and TRS and let that and an open and honest MAXON be our upgrade!  Unless, of course, meaningful core improvements are in the works and slated for R17... you can keep working on those.  But for the love of God please, no more 3d camera trackers and like that.  Don't get me wrong, the "whizz bang!" features are welcome additions, but not when there are far, far, far more pressing issues that need to be addressed.

 

I'm actually really fearful of R17.  If MAXON doesn't make TR as rock solid as NET was, they might as well start packing up their offices... cuz there's a lot of users already hanging over the side of this ship, and they're ready to jump.

 

-kvb

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Sorry for the slight off-topic, but I've seen a couple of mentions of issues with reflection (I'm guessing this is the new reflection channel). Could someone briefly explain what the problem(s) is/are?

 

I've seen the Nick Campbell demo and it looked like a substantial advance.

 

Mark

 

answered in thread already. But the most important problem: Can't edit multiple reflectance materials at once. so if you have 15 different plastics ( pink, yellow, red...) you can't adjust reflection values on all of them at once. You have to open each one independently and adjust it. Makes tweaking an absolute nightmare! 

 

also the mix mode doesnt work. so making one material to control reflection and coloring with other materials doesn't work. 

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answered in thread already. But the most important problem: Can't edit multiple reflectance materials at once. so if you have 15 different plastics ( pink, yellow, red...) you can't adjust reflection values on all of them at once. You have to open each one independently and adjust it. Makes tweaking an absolute nightmare! 

 

also the mix mode doesnt work. so making one material to control reflection and coloring with other materials doesn't work. 

 

Thanks. I should have read back through the thread   :oops:

Mark

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Guest Scottishcpt


Totally agree, MAXON seem to be unique at this point in how secretive they are, Autodesk release their 'sneak peeks' well before releases and even show their plans for future development at conferences. So do Pixologic with ZBrush. The thing I always feel watching this stuff is that they clearly have long range plans and aren't just making it up as they go along (which I like in music, not so much with software!). Possibly MAXON do have long range plans too but they sure don't let their general users on what that is usually. The benefit of this also goes back to a company too, if they show something and people really react negatively to it then they know they should go back to the drawing board.
 
Cheers,
Brian

 

Do they have long range plans?

 

If I look at the feature release of the past couple of versions, it's very chaotic. I've seen this sort of behaviour in other companies and it usually suggests that their developer skill is running thin internally. Nobody is around who can maintain XYZ anymore, so let's work on ABC instead and maybe the users won't notice. Also, the internal structure of C4D seems very peculiar (so sue me, I was grepping around in the binary looking for hidden debug settings a while ago) in that all the source files are organized per developer (Tilo, Christian, Philip, Richard, Thomas, etc). What happens when one of those developers leaves? Does that entire branch of the source tree get abandoned or does someone else take up maintenance? I've heard that others wrote things like Mograph and Thinking Particles for MAXON (rather then in-house developers) who are no longer with the company, which could explain why those sections of the app never really receive updates anymore. There's just nobody around who wants to deal with it.

 

I dunno, the whole thing has felt really haphazard to me with the past couple of releases. The fact that MAXON won't release public roadmaps or sneak peeks makes me think that they're working on everything they *can*, but they're worried that if the users don't like that then they'll land up with a whole bunch of negative feedback and no way to deal with it (ie, the cog tool in R16).

 

-SC

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I dunno, the whole thing has felt really haphazard to me with the past couple of releases. The fact that MAXON won't release public roadmaps or sneak peeks makes me think that they're working on everything they *can*, but they're worried that if the users don't like that then they'll land up with a whole bunch of negative feedback and no way to deal with it (ie, the cog tool in R16).

 

That's why I think transparency is key. Last year (or was it 2013), there was almost a riot from Max users mad by the last updates on 3ds Max and the lack of communication by Autodesk.

 

They had to do something, so now they are a little bit more open. Why MAXON would wait for a tipping point as well? I'm pretty sure Autodesk lost some users until it realized that they needed to change.

 

Not all updates are going to be great, not all people are going to be happy. But if you are more open, you ease things a little.

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I'd like to see a roadmap of what's coming or what's planned. I've owned C4D since R11 and have paid for the MSA for each subsequent upgrade. I was very underwhelmed by R16 and question the logic of paying £500 without knowing what I'm buying. I'm seriously thinking about not upgrading to R17 as that £500 could buy other software (or a lot of beer). 3D probably makes up 20% of my workload so I'm not a 'power' user.

 

Personally I feel that from R11 to R16, the big standout was sculpting. It is a very good tool set, however the £2.5k I've paid in upgrades, I could have bought:

Silo for modelling

3D coat for sculpting, retopo, UV and painting (no need to polypen or Bodypaint)

VRay for rendering (or one of the others).

Xparticles

PFTrack for tracking

and so on...

 

I'm still defaulting to R15 for my C4D work. Would I have been better buying Vray or xparticles rather than the upgrade to R16? Personally, I think so.

 

I don't want to rent software either (regarding Adobe, it's because I don't want to be locked out of an archive of almost 30 years of professional work). I'm slowly finding alternatives to the Adobe suite (Affinity designer being the first) and with the proliferation of Indi versions of popular 3D packages I feel I can add the functionality I want rather than buying blind from MAXON.

 

I just wish Blender didn’t have such a pig of an interface.

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For R17 I wish MAXON would speak more! You know? On forums or put out events and talk about what they are thinking of the future, etc etc. No more "we can't disclose anything" talk.

 

Even Autodesk, which is way bigger than MAXON, talks here and there about what's coming, what they are doing. They have a PM (for Max at least) who appears in the forums when the topic get much attention, they have events about what's coming next (like this years presentations on SIGGRAPH), etc.

 

It's very important for a company to have a presence online and have a "spokesman", something like what Brad Peebler does. You may not like Brad, but I doubt you wouldn't want somebody doing the same things for MAXON (talking to users, posting on threads about the future, etc etc).

 

+1 Yeah speak, even in german we don't care ;-)

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There is some interesting speculation going on in this thread. There are a couple of things which are public knowledge but I fell I should mention them :)

 

- MAXON team is constantly growing and hiring

- Developer who done Mograph (most of it) is in and will stay in the team for sure

- A potenital situation where one developer leaves and that has an impact on complete development is ridiculous, at least in MAXON case

- Communication with Beta testers is very good

- Of course there are long term plans

 

What I can assure you, is that given that MAXON is German company things are not chaotic at all, in fact quite the opposite, very organized and systematic.

The company policy of not being so open to the public about future development is simply current state, but that doesn't mean it won't be topic for discussion and potential revision in future.

 

I think that last release fulfilled a lot of long standing wishes in forms of features and resolved a lot of workflow issues and gave some performance improvements, and there is no reason for upcoming versions not to do the same.

 

Here is a refresher for all features:

 

http://www.maxon.net/products/general-information/general-information/all-new-r16-features.html

 

Cheers

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