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arail

so what happens to the cafe when Nigel dumps c4d?

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I have to say even though stating with c4d somewhere before version 8 and being a member of the cafe as long as i can remember, by version 11 I was looking at MAYA and even blender to do my 3D work. I am a one man show and MAXON was getting more are expensive and letting more and more of the features to rot on the vine. I only upgraded to 16 because of a work contract, the first that required C4d only in YEARS. I still like the interface overall and the ease of use that is infused into C4D and I still need it for work, but like a lot of people the writing seems to be on the wall.

As for Nigel leaving, it's really a loss for the C4D community ( I think we can say his dedication to us and the product is what made many of stay with it, not MAXON) but after so many years its normal to move on to other things. As a cyclist, good on him! As a follower of the cafe, good luck on your new endeavours away for C4D. You have helped me a lot over the years and I can't express my appreciation enough. 

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Guest DTea

Just like to chime in and say thank you to Nigel and the moderators for making the Cafe an excellent resource. I hope it can live on. I'm rather stuck with C4D as I do motion graphics and Modo just doesn't fit the bill for me at the moment. I'm not going to be paying for the MSA this year as I'm still using R15 rather than R16 and I'm not buying R17 blind. If R17 has some killer features I'll pay the penalty and upgrade at a later date - but I think my mix of R15 and 3d Coat (and it's new PBR workflow) will be sufficient for me. I do motion tracking in AE, I do all my Bodypaint and retopo stuff in 3D coat. 

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Guest salvatore

Well, I have to post something about this one here: I joined the C4DCafe in 2005. It was always a great place to find help and resources for Cinema 4D.

Now get clear: If the C4DCafe gets closed because of 3DKiwi drops and leave Cinema 4D so the C4DCafe aswell I will missing something great. I know the Cinema 4D community was always very hard to convince about my Works but they also helped me a lot.

Now something about 3D Software: I have Cinema 4D R16 , Modo 801, Blender, LightWave 2015 and Z-Brush. I will update all those 3D Software everytime with the new versions come out. The only 3D Software I droped last year was Z-Brush. I always say there is nothing wrong to use several 3D Software but I hate this compare between 3D Software. If someone is not Happy with a 3D Software about the development and pricing policy jump to Blender, It's free and opensource, so you can make you own 3D Software with a Make a Film Button :)

I work with a 3D Pipeline and Cinema 4D is the main part of that Pipeline. Since 2013 I'm Betatester for Cinema 4D. I love Cinema 4D and it will stay my Main 3D Software also for me Cinema 4D ist the most stabile 3D Software out there., Maybe that's a swiss thing. We stay with that what we have :) on the other hand I do not earn money with 3D, it's not my main job; therefore it might bother me less, how fast new tool are coming.
 

Now to completion: I think every 3D Software has strengths and weaknesses. The 3D marked moves so fast and the time will bring some great things for everyone.

I will miss 3DKiwi and the C4DCafe and I would like to say a big THANKS to 3DKIWI for the last 10 years.

SaL CDA

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Quitting being a beta tester tells volumes about whats coming with R17.  Hope its not TO disappointing !!

Anyway....thanks for running the site all this time Nigel, and for all the tuts.  Some have been invaluable in my learning c4d.

ten

 

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I agree with Nigel's decision to move on for the reasons he's given.  It is hard to continue supporting a forum for a product that you no longer believe in.  I will miss his involvement with C4D but hope that we continue to stay in contact with each other over the years.  Nothing prevents that from happening other than letting the old adage of "out of sight, out of mind" take hold.

Like Nigel, with each modo release you just see more and more tools being added and then look at C4D and see a development pace that pales by comparison.  Couple of things that I need to consider if I were to see MAXON further mismanage C4D's development:

  1. Cost of software and plugins, but also time to learn a new platform, time to convert assets to a new platform, cost for new modo tutorials, etc.  Plus lost opportunity cost of everything C4D related that I have purchased in the past.  Now, this does not mean that I can't still create something in C4D and port it over to modo, but over time there will be a point where R16 will no longer run on a future version of Windows...and at that point, it is game over.
  2. modo stability.  Okay....love all the new features, but have they made modo more stable in the process?  Part of the "stodginess" in the MAXON development cycle probably has to do with one thing: Stability.  So it is a double edged sword because you take stability for granted only until you switch to a less stable program.
  3. The future of The Foundary:  Not sure where The Foundary is going to land in terms of new owner.  I would really want to see how that plays out before making a switch.
  4. modo interface.  Sorry, but I just can't get my head wrapped around their object and material management.  I purchased modo 401 (still have it), but regretted it because of the complete lack of tool specific training, training that was given via verbal hot-key descriptions only (very hard to follow unless the instructor talks slow---which they don't).
  5. Having the right tool is more important than having a new tool:  Computer programs are tools. Evaluate whether or not you need the tool before you purchase it. My interests are more effects related and as such XP3 and TFD suit my needs just fine.
  6. Never underestimate the value of intuitive software.  We all love shiny new toys and modo marketing is really great at selling the next version of their software.  But as you watch the video's, keep asking yourself how long will it take you to grow your skills as proficiently as the people demoing that feature.  Will there be enough training available to get you up that learning curve?  I have to say, while the tools look cool, they don't look that intuitive to use.

Now, don't read too much into what R17 will or will not have based on Nigel's decision.  Remember that all the R14 beta testers were completely surprised by sculpting as it was added pretty late in the beta testing cycle.  Alas though, I fear that MAXON's approach is to partner with other companies (Allegorithmic, Side Effects, etc.) as a means to add new features rather than develop them internally.  This does nothing for the user as we are already paying a premium for C4D but now have to purchase other programs should we desire those features.

Not sure what the future of The Cafe really is...but I think more would be done for the C4D community if it was just folded up rather than sold.  Why?  Well, like every other user out there, I am ripping mad at MAXON management for how they are NOT protecting my investment.  I am sure that C4D Cafe has helped promote a number of sales for MAXON and represents a really good sales channel for them.  Think about it: if you were interested in C4D, what other site would you go to that provides as much training and guidance as this site does? Threatening to close this site completely may get MAXON's attention and actually force them to listen to the customer, understand their anger and actually do something about it.  Unfortunately, we all know that won't happen.  One thing that continues to be developed by MAXON over the years is their arrogance.

Let me end with a huge thank you to Nigel!  While we support your decision, we are sad to see you go!

Dave

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  •  Threatening to close this site completely may get MAXON's attention and actually force them to listen to the customer, understand their anger and actually do something about it.  Unfortunately, we all know that won't happen.  One thing that continues to be developed by MAXON over the years is their arrogance.

    Let me end with a huge thank you to Nigel!  While we support your decision, we are sad to see you go!

    Dave

    ​Didn't Nigel once say that as far as he could tell, no one from MAXON management had ever visited this site? 

    So the forum could stay or go and they wouldn't even know about it. And they wouldn't know about the opinions expressed on this forum that might be useful considering we are customers.

    But I think it's wise to provide some counter balance to Nigel's move as Ice Cave Man has done and 3D-Pangel is now doing.

    Things I dislike about modo:

    Each viewport is a separate island - it's not just a 'frame' like in c4d. That means you have to set the preferences (color, etc.) separately for each viewport (Model, UV, Layout, Rendering, etc.) and you have to set them all up again when you crash (and you will crash).

    I dislike the 'look' of it - it seems out of date, especially compared to Maya (which now looks a bit like c4d).

    It crashes, oh yes it crashes. Hopefully 901 will be more stable. If not, hit Save again and again and again while you're working.

    There are many basic things such as Snapping that are a bit weird, not buggy, just weird. I work with snapping On in c4d but Off in modo except when I need it because it's too strong or something, it gets in the way while you're modeling.

    There are lots of functions in the modo that could be slimmed down - like Action Centers. They're useful but I don't find myself using any more of the variations than the ones I use in c4d which are simpler (click the Icon, Move the center to where you want, unclick the Icon). In modo I have to remind myself: which one is Element, which one is Selection. I imagine other people will disagree with this but I tend to like a simpler, not more complex, workflow.

    The much aligned Knife tool in c4d is more useful than the Slice tool in modo.

     

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    Dave, not sure from your point 3 whether you've seen the news about this but the majority share sale has been completed. The holding has been taken on by a well-respected equity partner - the  tech, media and telecomms arm of HgCapital. Their investment strategy is rather more long term than Carlyle's.

    So it looks as though the medium to semi-longterm future of The Foundry is settled.

    Linky: http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/about-us/news-awards/the-foundry-announces-new-investment-from-hgcapital/

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    Folks, cafe wont close down even if Nigel decides to stop running the show and if so, the cafe will stay as it is with same positive friendly atmosphere :)

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    browsing from phone so am a bit short in replies, but be sure that everyone in Maxon knows for and often checks out cafe. :) Many developers and other Maxon staff have accounts but prefer to keep low profile.

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    Just to address some of Dave's points

    1. Good concerns to have. With Windows, I am personally not too concerned about being able to run C4D in the future. Microsoft has been pretty good about compatibility. Just recently, I ran a 16 year old piece of software for a project. I'll likely have an older machine around or worst case, need to run it via emulation.

    2. Modo has had real stability issues, but I'm feeling very good that those are being solved for good with the new system they have. 801 has improved dramatically. I'm optimistic that the initial release of 901 will be very solid. Not C4D solid, as few applications are, but not any more than an average application.

    3. The buyer was HgCapital. Looks to be very good for the company and customers.

    4. Kind of a personal thing. I got Modo easy enough. I very much like the Shader Tree compared to the C4D materials. I'm a little more fond of C4D Object Manager though. Tutorials are definitely not as numerous as C4D though.

    5. Definitely. I don't think Modo is at a point where I would really choose it over C4D for mograph. For illustration, product/packaging, some visualization stuff and Look Dev it is absolutely killer though. The two packages do work pretty well together, so if one has the time to learn both, the can be a great combo.

    6. Once again, a very personal thing. I find it much better for some things and worse for others. I rarely use C4D these days, but most of the work I do plays well to modo's stregths and I don't find those parts of the program particularly unintuitive.

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