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arail

so what happens to the cafe when Nigel dumps c4d?

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3D-Pangel    157

I agree with Nigel's decision to move on for the reasons he's given.  It is hard to continue supporting a forum for a product that you no longer believe in.  I will miss his involvement with C4D but hope that we continue to stay in contact with each other over the years.  Nothing prevents that from happening other than letting the old adage of "out of sight, out of mind" take hold.

Like Nigel, with each modo release you just see more and more tools being added and then look at C4D and see a development pace that pales by comparison.  Couple of things that I need to consider if I were to see MAXON further mismanage C4D's development:

  1. Cost of software and plugins, but also time to learn a new platform, time to convert assets to a new platform, cost for new modo tutorials, etc.  Plus lost opportunity cost of everything C4D related that I have purchased in the past.  Now, this does not mean that I can't still create something in C4D and port it over to modo, but over time there will be a point where R16 will no longer run on a future version of Windows...and at that point, it is game over.
  2. modo stability.  Okay....love all the new features, but have they made modo more stable in the process?  Part of the "stodginess" in the MAXON development cycle probably has to do with one thing: Stability.  So it is a double edged sword because you take stability for granted only until you switch to a less stable program.
  3. The future of The Foundary:  Not sure where The Foundary is going to land in terms of new owner.  I would really want to see how that plays out before making a switch.
  4. modo interface.  Sorry, but I just can't get my head wrapped around their object and material management.  I purchased modo 401 (still have it), but regretted it because of the complete lack of tool specific training, training that was given via verbal hot-key descriptions only (very hard to follow unless the instructor talks slow---which they don't).
  5. Having the right tool is more important than having a new tool:  Computer programs are tools. Evaluate whether or not you need the tool before you purchase it. My interests are more effects related and as such XP3 and TFD suit my needs just fine.
  6. Never underestimate the value of intuitive software.  We all love shiny new toys and modo marketing is really great at selling the next version of their software.  But as you watch the video's, keep asking yourself how long will it take you to grow your skills as proficiently as the people demoing that feature.  Will there be enough training available to get you up that learning curve?  I have to say, while the tools look cool, they don't look that intuitive to use.

Now, don't read too much into what R17 will or will not have based on Nigel's decision.  Remember that all the R14 beta testers were completely surprised by sculpting as it was added pretty late in the beta testing cycle.  Alas though, I fear that MAXON's approach is to partner with other companies (Allegorithmic, Side Effects, etc.) as a means to add new features rather than develop them internally.  This does nothing for the user as we are already paying a premium for C4D but now have to purchase other programs should we desire those features.

Not sure what the future of The Cafe really is...but I think more would be done for the C4D community if it was just folded up rather than sold.  Why?  Well, like every other user out there, I am ripping mad at MAXON management for how they are NOT protecting my investment.  I am sure that C4D Cafe has helped promote a number of sales for MAXON and represents a really good sales channel for them.  Think about it: if you were interested in C4D, what other site would you go to that provides as much training and guidance as this site does? Threatening to close this site completely may get MAXON's attention and actually force them to listen to the customer, understand their anger and actually do something about it.  Unfortunately, we all know that won't happen.  One thing that continues to be developed by MAXON over the years is their arrogance.

Let me end with a huge thank you to Nigel!  While we support your decision, we are sad to see you go!

Dave

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arail    18

 Threatening to close this site completely may get MAXON's attention and actually force them to listen to the customer, understand their anger and actually do something about it.  Unfortunately, we all know that won't happen.  One thing that continues to be developed by MAXON over the years is their arrogance.

Let me end with a huge thank you to Nigel!  While we support your decision, we are sad to see you go!

Dave

​Didn't Nigel once say that as far as he could tell, no one from MAXON management had ever visited this site? 

So the forum could stay or go and they wouldn't even know about it. And they wouldn't know about the opinions expressed on this forum that might be useful considering we are customers.

But I think it's wise to provide some counter balance to Nigel's move as Ice Cave Man has done and 3D-Pangel is now doing.

Things I dislike about modo:

Each viewport is a separate island - it's not just a 'frame' like in c4d. That means you have to set the preferences (color, etc.) separately for each viewport (Model, UV, Layout, Rendering, etc.) and you have to set them all up again when you crash (and you will crash).

I dislike the 'look' of it - it seems out of date, especially compared to Maya (which now looks a bit like c4d).

It crashes, oh yes it crashes. Hopefully 901 will be more stable. If not, hit Save again and again and again while you're working.

There are many basic things such as Snapping that are a bit weird, not buggy, just weird. I work with snapping On in c4d but Off in modo except when I need it because it's too strong or something, it gets in the way while you're modeling.

There are lots of functions in the modo that could be slimmed down - like Action Centers. They're useful but I don't find myself using any more of the variations than the ones I use in c4d which are simpler (click the Icon, Move the center to where you want, unclick the Icon). In modo I have to remind myself: which one is Element, which one is Selection. I imagine other people will disagree with this but I tend to like a simpler, not more complex, workflow.

The much aligned Knife tool in c4d is more useful than the Slice tool in modo.

 

Edited by arail

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hulaboy    5

Dave, not sure from your point 3 whether you've seen the news about this but the majority share sale has been completed. The holding has been taken on by a well-respected equity partner - the  tech, media and telecomms arm of HgCapital. Their investment strategy is rather more long term than Carlyle's.

So it looks as though the medium to semi-longterm future of The Foundry is settled.

Linky: http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/about-us/news-awards/the-foundry-announces-new-investment-from-hgcapital/

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HSrdelic    622

Folks, cafe wont close down even if Nigel decides to stop running the show and if so, the cafe will stay as it is with same positive friendly atmosphere :)

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HSrdelic    622

browsing from phone so am a bit short in replies, but be sure that everyone in Maxon knows for and often checks out cafe. :) Many developers and other Maxon staff have accounts but prefer to keep low profile.

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CFrechette    0

Just to address some of Dave's points

1. Good concerns to have. With Windows, I am personally not too concerned about being able to run C4D in the future. Microsoft has been pretty good about compatibility. Just recently, I ran a 16 year old piece of software for a project. I'll likely have an older machine around or worst case, need to run it via emulation.

2. Modo has had real stability issues, but I'm feeling very good that those are being solved for good with the new system they have. 801 has improved dramatically. I'm optimistic that the initial release of 901 will be very solid. Not C4D solid, as few applications are, but not any more than an average application.

3. The buyer was HgCapital. Looks to be very good for the company and customers.

4. Kind of a personal thing. I got Modo easy enough. I very much like the Shader Tree compared to the C4D materials. I'm a little more fond of C4D Object Manager though. Tutorials are definitely not as numerous as C4D though.

5. Definitely. I don't think Modo is at a point where I would really choose it over C4D for mograph. For illustration, product/packaging, some visualization stuff and Look Dev it is absolutely killer though. The two packages do work pretty well together, so if one has the time to learn both, the can be a great combo.

6. Once again, a very personal thing. I find it much better for some things and worse for others. I rarely use C4D these days, but most of the work I do plays well to modo's stregths and I don't find those parts of the program particularly unintuitive.

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Icecaveman    56

It depresses me to offer a big thanks to Kiwi for this site. Thank him for the tutorials and the forum chat and the fun place to come and read a review--for the past six years of my life?

Such a 'thank-you' feels like goodbye. I just can't do it.

 

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arail    18

Folks, cafe wont close down even if Nigel decides to stop running the show and if so, the cafe will stay as it is with same positive friendly atmosphere :)

browsing from phone so am a bit short in replies, but be sure that everyone in MAXON knows for and often checks out cafe. :) Many developers and other MAXON staff have accounts but prefer to keep low profile.

​Good to hear both of these replies.

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Edouard    16

browsing from phone so am a bit short in replies, but be sure that everyone in MAXON knows for and often checks out cafe. :) Many developers and other MAXON staff have accounts but prefer to keep low profile.

Ok they check but they don't care, it's maybe even worse. Sorry but Nigel decision is very symptomatic of what happens for a while now, a growing feeling of frustrations in the C4D community. Even you work at MAXON you couldn't ignore or deny that competitions are much more close with their users and seem to bring what users pay for. I have one question is there any chance to be as excited for R17 as we can be for the last Maya or Modo release?

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HSrdelic    622

I believe you misinterpreted Nigels decision? As far as I understood it his focus is now shifting from 3D in general and more toward biking and other personal interests. Running a forum for such a long period of time is very demanding and exhausting, I can guarantee you that although I just help administering it is a position which demands constant care. Also, I am sure that Nigel will stay active on forum even if he decides to stop running the show. Regarding R17, will reply later once I am home. My fingers and smartphones dont really work nice :)

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Anthony Owen    19

As I use Octane for materials and rendering and 3D-Coat for model creation, my R15 with Mograph and Cactus Dan's tools makes a nice fit. The only problem I have is slow viewport response with animation so it's hardware I need. HSrdelic's assurance that the Cafe continues is welcome. Bon voyage, Nigel!

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Edouard    16

I believe you misinterpreted Nigels decision? As far as I understood it his focus is now shifting from 3D in general and more toward biking and other personal interests. Running a forum for such a long period of time is very demanding and exhausting, I can guarantee you that although I just help administering it is a position which demands constant care. Also, I am sure that Nigel will stay active on forum even if he decides to stop running the show. Regarding R17, will reply later once I am home. My fingers and smartphones dont really work nice :)

Wow I think everybody here has misinterpreted so. Yes running a forum takes time and it's should be even more tedious if he lost faith in the software he has always defended. Maybe you miss what he wrote on the Modo forum but I understandood he's shifting from C4D not from 3D, he just bought a Modo licence and will take time to (re)learn it from scratch. For R17 OK take your time to respond but please don't tell us to check at all the features MAXON has made to the last releases as you usually say because it's precisely the problem.

Edited by Edouard

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