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so what happens to the cafe when Nigel dumps c4d?


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If even Yader learned from your tutorials that's really a compliment, Nigel!

And I sure hope he and SREK and HSrdelic and the other big boys keep hanging out here to share their amazing knowledge and leave those wonderful example files for dissection.

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I, have no words really. Thank you Nigel!
For me too, c4dcafe was the start of something great. I echo the one who wrote that Nigel´s calm voice and basic and friendly approach were a big motivation for me to learn. I´ve had C4d since 8.5 I think... and if I rememebr correctly I learned from Nigel´s tutorials back then.
So I´ll leave the c4d bashing for another day and just say, again, thank you Nigel, and good luck on all future projects.

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Hi Nigel, 
one big surprise for me, was when I saw that you have to pay for your C4D. I took it for granted that you got a free version each year. As I take it for granted that Nick Campbell & co get a free version. It is a shame, If what I have observed here is correct.  Correct me if I am wrong, please. There is something here going on that I do not know about, and that I don't want to know. Now, you want to use modo, good luck! I had version 501 and 601, sold them. modo - never again, I cannot stand messy user interfaces, despite all good functionality it might have. C4D, OTOH, is the versatile 3D application for my (mostly non-profit) use. With x-particles, and all the other new stuff.. 
I just wish you would continue to make your excellent C4D tutorials. All things have a start, and an end. I wish you good luck with all your new undertakings! 
I have learnt to appreciate this forum, a lot. It is just invaluable. 
Greetings from almost exactly the opposite part of the globe, Norway.


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Big kudos to Nigel for his years of hard work and help for C4D newcomers.  My sympathy and appreciation too for Hrvoje for doing his best and utmost under that pesky NDA.  I hope Nigel really enjoys himself and has a fulfilling time in Modoland.

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Guest mAssimo

Completely shocked by this sad (for us) news. Like many here, I started learning C4D with the Cafe's great tutorials. I can't thank you enough for your enthusiasm and generosity, Nigel.

As much as I'm frustrated with MAXON after the latest Team Render Server DISASTER and their unwillingness to provide users of NET Render with an alternative solution while they try to fix that mess, I'm in Motion Graphics and there's nothing that can even touch C4D in that field. I must say "unfortunately" because even though MAXON have great people that go out of their way to help users (Srek, Patrick Goski, etc.), the bad taste of a company that doesn't seem to care about users' needs still remains. I actively tried to ditch C4D for other packages (including MODO) but at least for now nobody compares in terms of user friendliness and motion graphics features. The Mograph module is an absolute masterpiece that everybody using other software envies us. 

Sigh. I'd wish the company would change management style and open direct ways of communication with users. It's getting old.

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Cheerio Nigel. All the best and many thanks for the site and tutorials.

I even came third in a challenge!

I may be following your decision soon. I haven't upgraded since R14 (despite having an R16 license) because there's not much reason to move. I use VrayforC4D for rendering arch viz stuff and the things that have been 'added' to versions since R14 have been pretty light for me - cogs, grass, motion tracker (I really don't get that one. Who does animation in C4D without AE/Nuke/Fusion? And all have their own trackers...). BodyPaint and MoGraph are (sorry, were) the killer apps in C4D. MoGraph is still great, but it hasn't had a decent update for years. And BodyPaint... it was so ahead of the game it used to be sold on its own, but now look at it. And don't get me started on TRS v. NetRender!

There's still lot's to like about C4D - stability, simplicity, the object manager, tags, 'live' nurbs, text handling...

But like many here, I'm just so disappointed that MAXON are letting the important areas languish or rot. It just doesn't feel like a modern DCC app to me anymore. Except where a third party has written something.

So, Maya, Max or Modo? (maybe that's all MAXON need to do, change the name to something beginning with 'M'!)

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Hi Nigel, 
one big surprise for me, was when I saw that you have to pay for your C4D. I took it for granted that you got a free version each year....

I've only ever bought C4D Release 8.5 and some modules. Wasn't the full suite but I recall it had Advanced Render, Dynamics (that were useless) and maybe something else. I had to pretend I was living in the USA and had it delivered to 3DCrew (The other cafe founder). He then posted it to me. The price of buying from the local distributor was about double the US price. I could have flown to the USA, paid for it then flown home again for less. Nothing much has changed since then except there isn't much of a price difference now. Still less in the US however and still less again if I was allowed to but from a US reseller. I bought Modo 801 (with free 901 upgrade) from a US reseller and saved $200 from buying direct from The Foundary. Depending on where you live now you can download C4D as opposed to having to have a boxed version.

Release 9 and since I've been provided with review copies and or been a Beta tester. I had a clean out of my cupboard a few weeks ago and threw out all the boxes including bulky manuals. Sure took up a lot of room. I've kept my boxed R16 edition.

Thanks for the kind words everyone. It's been a hell of a ride but my time with C4D is over or will be soon. I'll be exporting my extensive library of Lego pieces over to Modo. There's more Lego models that I want to create and I don't want to start from scratch.

I should mention that my criticisms of Maxon are not about the people. The people that I've dealt with over the years have been very good to deal with. For anyone that's interested I've written an expanded list of issues I see Maxon as having here.



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Well, I'm totally shocked to hear Nigel is standing down.

This forum and Nigel's tutorials have been the backbone of mine, and many many other C4D users, many of which have been inspired and gone on to have careers in 3D and motion graphics.

SO THANK YOU NIGEL, you will be sorely missed.


ps  I totally understand. When it's time to move on, it's time to move on.

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It's as if Titanic is sinking or more appropriately, the Concorde jetliner is being put to retirement.. and to Nigel, thanks for those eleven Supersonic Years!!:cry:

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thanks so much for this great place of information and entertainment, learning c4d would have been much harder without the cafe. i can understand your decision, and it sounds like the right thing to do for you. 

@ hsrdelic: thank you for the info, it's good to know people ARE listening at MAXON. i hope you don't get into any trouble by sharing those things about the next release. in fact they should thank you, i'm sure your post did calm a lot of people down a bit. i personally don't even need the information which exact feature will be in what release, i just need to know they're listening and working on known issues, so i don't have to make the half hour drive over to MAXON headquarters and yell at them

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Sad to hear you're moving on Nigel.

Thanks so much for all you've brought to the Cinema 4D community over the years.

I stumbled on the cafe just after it opened & I was a rank amateur & I learned so much here over the years.

Good luck in the future, Nigel.

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Only thing here that would satisfy people seem to be is to say out bluntly yes, "feature A and B are coming for R17", "feature D, E and F for R18", but that is simply something that is not allowed to be communicated right now, but could be subject to change in future,I simply don't know or make such decisions. What is interesting is that if you watch various MAXON workshops, presentations, user meetings things are often hinted by product managers themselves so it is not a difficult task to get a good idea of future feature set :)



I don't think people want to know exactly what features are coming in future releases but they want feedback from MAXON that long standing and serious issues are being actively worked on.

It's time for MAXON to stop hiding behind the very convenient cover of "we don't discuss future features" because customers who are expected to fork out a heavy price each year for their MSA or upgrades in the hope that long standing issues will be addressed deserve a bit more respect from MAXON.

The bevel tool situation can be applied to many areas of the application now surely there is at least some embarrassment at MAXON HQ at features that are so old and dated?

I can remember seeing the early Mograph tools being demonstrated and on that basis I purchased C4D Studio (When that was the "cheapest" way of buying all the modules) since that point it became very obvious amongst users that there was an issue with C4D's ability to handle multiple objects and I can remember the calls for MAXON to address that issue. Those calls have got louder and louder each subsequent year to the point they must simply be deafening to all concerned at MAXON HQ. How long are we going to have to wait until those calls are headed, maybe as long as it took for the bevel tool to be made useful?

Xpresso is an unbelievably important tool within C4D yet it too has seen no real improvement since the day it was licensed bar a bit of lipstick a few releases ago. Compare Xpresso/TP with the competition's visual programming/rigging tools and they do not fare favourably at all in scope nor performance. Thank heavens for XParticles which has shown  even within the dated object handling engine that user can animate large particle and objects by virtue of a multithreaded engine, I applaud those developers because without them C4D would look very dated. Demands from clients over the years has been for increased object numbers and particle counts and has not stayed the same which MAXON clearly believe.

Bodypaint.... I can't write any more about that that others haven't written for years, it's a bloody disgrace that an area of a modern expensive DCC has been allowed to atrophy so bad that it is a running joke within and outside the community. Yes it still works but it is horrible to use.

I don't want to run through ever gripe I have because it's not about me but the next big issue I see regularly written about is the feature upgrade lottery, it appears completely random. Who was it that decided that C4D required a Motion Tracker before Bodypaint was brought up to date? Who was it that decided to purchase an unpopular plugin and incorporate that into C4D before bringing a feature that nearly every single C4D user needs to use most of the time? The Motion Tracker isn't even of professional standard as there is no way to measure and match lens distortion.

There are other issues with the upgrade philosophy, such as features being worked on then nothing for years and sometimes never again will a feature see development. An application that really became synonymous with Mograph has seen very little development in that area since it was rolled out. I used to think this was because MAXON must be working on a high performance Xpresso/TP replacement and that would be the answer to many artists' needs, nowadays, I have absolutely no faith that any of the issues above have been acknowledged by MAXON HQ let alone being actively worked on.

Other companies like the behemoth Autodesk and much smaller SideFX do converse with their customers and provide a direction of travel. SideFX have officially said they are actively working on their viewport performance, they have publicly acknowledged their performance compared to their competition and have quelled any fears of their users and stated it's in for the next release. Why won't MAXON do the same?


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