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Hrvoje

MAXON announces R17

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Well, I agree with some of what Nigel and Brian say. Personally I´m not happy with this release and probably won´t renew my MSA next year.
As an animator it´s nice to see that after probably 6 years or writing to MAXON asking for a built-in euler filter, it´s  finally there, along with what (I assume) are auto-tangents. But, even thought Bret has a valid point, I still can´t shake off the feeling that Maya has had a Euler filter for many many years, and auto-tangents for a long time as well. So it´s not easy to be super-excited for "new" features that are new to c4d but old news in 3D.
The takes thing will be useful for me, looks like a nice new feature.
I´m just about to buy an Octane license, but I can´t help but be doubtful if it is for C4D that I should buy it. I just don´t feel like learning another package from scratch, but sadly c4d is lagging behind a lot. The fact that Xpresso, TP and Bodypaint aren´t even mentioned is not good for anyone. To make the gorgeous looking Aixsponza video you also need Octane, Arnold and Houdini. Other apps are making an effort to bring an integrated fluids system, even if they are simpler that RF or Houdini. BiFrost in Maya is a good example of this. Even Blender has one. Also, long time with no updates to the cloth system. Anyone who has tried to make a serious character driven cloth workflow knows it´s pretty much unusable.
Well, those are my thoughts, but hopefully when the update arrives I´ll find more things to get excited for. But I´m pretty sure I won´t spend 650 on the MSA next year. If R18 is really worth it I´ll upgrade and if not, I´ll feel more than OK with R17 for another year, and that money will probably be better spent in x-particles, TFD or some other great third-party plugin.

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Flipping keys refers to being able to jump back and forwards between two keyframes you have set in the timeline, so that you can compare them without seeing the interpolation, similar to how 2D animators would 'flip' their drawings to see the poses. 

Thanks. I have used this function a lot. All in all - key functions on the timeline in C4D suck, to use a common expression. I see that now, in R17, the spacebar will finally start / stop the animation, like it is in the rest of the world's multimedia software. But, alas - only when the timeline has focus. 
-Ingvar

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Well, I agree with some of what Nigel and Brian say. Personally I´m not happy with this release and probably won´t renew my MSA next year.
As an animator it´s nice to see that after probably 6 years or writing to MAXON asking for a built-in euler filter, it´s  finally there, along with what (I assume) are auto-tangents. But, even thought Bret has a valid point, I still can´t shake off the feeling that Maya has had a Euler filter for many many years, and auto-tangents for a long time as well. So it´s not easy to be super-excited for "new" features that are new to c4d but old news in 3D.

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, Maya's auto-tangents are only a couple of versions old now. Before that it was a plugin everyone used. And when it came in people were the same, they said oh well why? I use Comet Tools? But now they love it. CINEMA's done the same thing(except we didn't have a plugin for tangents).

Plus let's not forget the many things CINEMA did before Maya did for years(loop split, proper selection tools etc.).

People can harp on releases for ever but it's a simple formula. Will the features aid me in my work to justify the costs. If yes, then you upgrade. If not, then you don't. Simple as that.

 

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Maya's auto tangents are there since Maya 2012, released in 2011. Before that there was Comets MEL script, someone tried to write a Python Auto-Tangent script for Cinema  3 years ago but they weren't smart enough to figure it out and get it fully working ;)

Selection tools in C4D are better for components (points/edges/polys) but they stink for object selection compared to Maya IMO. Maya even has soft selection for object level selections which is really handy sometimes, for animation though, not really for modeling. Don't get me started on the Live Selection tool in C4D again and it's phantom bubble that follows it around.. LOL

There's also another weird bug in C4D for the last few versions where a selection will 'jump' to another object, drives me crazy sometimes, happens a lot with character controllers (typically splines).

I'm already aboard the upgrade train as I've paid my MSA a few weeks back, to be honest I'll continue to do that as long as I have clients that want me to work for them in C4D. Some of mine have switched to Maya recently, some are still on C4D, as long as C4D pays for itself I'll keep my subscription for it active. I still want the freedom to complain about stuff that I think could be better. As a paying customer I feel I am free to do that.

Cheers,

Brian

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One of the highlights I see is better FBX import and export.  They say it's improved, but how good is yet to be seen.  Hopefully it can actually be used now.

Houdini is looking like a good C4D replacement in many areas.

Some character animation improvements.  Awesome!  To bad there is no video showing these things.

 

Fixes to the worst things would be great.

1) Reflection fixed

2) Having Team Render work when every other frame is selected instead of rendering ever frame.

 

Small features would be great.

1) Being able to type in specific frames to render.

2) Symmetry, better stencils and stamps with preview, steady stroke in Bodypaint.  Nothing big just enough so I don't have to export to 3DCoat for everything.

 

Big feature I would love is huge improvement to the character animation tools.

 

Features I don't think are needed as they can now be done.

GPU rendering as we have other engines, fluids can be done with Houdini, sculpting because there are alternatives that work way better.

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One of the highlights I see is better FBX import and export.  They say it's improved, but how good is yet to be seen.  Hopefully it can actually be used now.

Houdini is looking like a good C4D replacement in many areas.

Some character animation improvements.  Awesome!  To bad there is no video showing these things.

 

Fixes to the worst things would be great.

1) Reflection fixed

2) Having Team Render work when every other frame is selected instead of rendering ever frame.

 

Small features would be great.

1) Being able to type in specific frames to render.

2) Symmetry, better stencils and stamps with preview, steady stroke in Bodypaint.  Nothing big just enough so I don't have to export to 3DCoat for everything.

 

Big feature I would love is huge improvement to the character animation tools.

 

Features I don't think are needed as they can now be done.

GPU rendering as we have other engines, fluids can be done with Houdini, sculpting because there are alternatives that work way better.

With the new Houdini integration it seems that learning Houdini would be a win win nomatter what you think about R17. 

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Pity you have to register at Cineversity to watch the most interesting videos.

All of the Cinema 4D R17 Quickstart Videos are free and open to everyone, even those that haven't registered for a free account.

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intersting to read Nigel, thanks. Is there a crossgrade offer to Modo? I'm much like you for needs and just can't see how this upgrade is worth £500, which means I won't be able to afford the upgrade after missing a year, which means I won't be able to pay for the thing all over again from scratch after that. Shame, love the software but the only way I could have justified this upgrade would have been to spread the cost over the year which is not an option.

I just downloaded Blender again ha! :D

Cheers

 

nope, Modo has no crossgrade offer at this time.  I asked about it in late May.

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is Takes in all versions or just in Visualize and Studio?
R17 overall looks underwhelming: color picker a major talking point? really? Takes seems nice but I don't animate that often.

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All /almost/ top new features are included in all cinema versions.What special we have in Studio for 3 times higher MSA price as in Prime

...formula shader, motion tracker improvements and Houdini engine support worth this price?

Lubo  

I would be very interested to hear a MAXON rep explain why Studio MSA and upgrade prices for R17 are so much greater than other versions, yet provide little additional functionality.  Studio customers seem to really be taking a sharp stick up the rear exit with R17's upgrade and MSA pricing.

Also not impressed that MAXON mentioned "Houdini Engine Integration" but failed to mention "Houdini Engine license also required, sold separately, $499-795".

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