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Hrvoje

MAXON announces R17

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Guest Badgerz

It is so funny, I didn't think anyone can beat Autodesk to it and release only a name upgrade for a software for such a high price. Congratulations MAXON, great job marketing basically a name change, you should get an award for that! I am 3dsmax user and wanted to switch to cinema4d just because of that, sh*** upgradesThe headline for this upgrade is the tracks system which was available as a free plugin from https://adamswaab.wordpress.com/category/3d-software/cinema-4d/plugin-development/render-elements/ ?!  It seems I was on the verge of making a big mistake. I really don't understand this way of managing a product and the pricing; 3700$ if I buy Cinema4d r17 studio while I can get Maya now for 130$ a month?! Modo for 1800$?!

I made an account just for this rant because it's a pity. You guys have made a wonderful piece of software that makes it easy for an artist, especially a motion graphics artist, to build beautiful and creative movies and now you are ruining it with overpriced "updates". It's a shame for the community as well, I discovered cinema4d last year and I was amazed to see how many tutorials, plugins and full project scenes available for download for free could be found on the web, it's just impressive. And now you are trying to rip off these people with a really overpriced upgrade. Maybe you are working on something else, rewrite of the core, bodypaint code, but who knows? There is no real communication with the community, which is making this software shine. Have a look at Otoy and their interaction with the community through their own forums. It's not that complicated.

Color wheel, this makes me laugh everytime I think of it, I kid you not. Somebody at MAXON has a lot of humor, it's a great joke. I guess in R18 the pantone color library will be inserted. SWEET! I would put this release in one of the biggest fails in the history of 3d software. It would have been okish if this was a 16.5 version and sold for far less, but 17?! It's a total rip off. 

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Okay....starting to study the Cineversity tutorials on R17.  Couple of questions:

1) Can the Take system be used to store modeling iterations as well?  I can see that it will for animation, particularly PLA as it effects the metaballs and for texturing, but what about changes to hard surface modeling?  If so, that would be HUGE! Essentially providing the ability for a complete modeling history and the ability to make changes to that history.

2) Can the variation shader be used in all channels?   Can it be used in the reflectance channel so that I can make variations in specular highlights across the surface of a model.  Kind of like Aztec'ing made simple.

If R17 has this capability, then I am slowly backing off the stance that this is an incredibly thin release.  Now, it is still pretty thin as far as releases go, but just not as thin as I first thought.  I at least have tools now that I will be looking forward to using.

Dave

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  • @Dave

    1. It can't store modeling history per object, however, you can have completely different model in each take. Think about takes in this way. It is a flavor of scene. You can for example override and change your scene from low to High poly, from day to night, from one mat to another, from fillet to non fillet version, from this pose to another, from one morph to another etc. It is very robust and flexible and will save a lot of time.

    2. It can be used in all channels. You don't need variation shader to do variations in reflectance, it can be done with other shaders such as noise, gradient. Variation shader is targeted in varying objects, selections or polygons. Not sure if I misunderstood you :)

    Cheers


    Free C4D trainings from MAXON professional on our youtube channel

     

    https://www.youtube.com/c4dcafe

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    The Cineversity videos have definitely softened my opinion of R17. I am feeling alot better about the new features and purchasing an MSA. The pen tool, for me, is still the best part.

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    @Dave

    1. It can't store modeling history per object, however, you can have completely different model in each take. Think about takes in this way. It is a flavor of scene. You can for example override and change your scene from low to High poly, from day to night, from one mat to another, from fillet to non fillet version, from this pose to another, from one morph to another etc. It is very robust and flexible and will save a lot of time.

    2. It can be used in all channels. You don't need variation shader to do variations in reflectance, it can be done with other shaders such as noise, gradient. Variation shader is targeted in varying objects, selections or polygons. Not sure if I misunderstood you :)

    Cheers

    That is what I am after.  That will be cool!

    Aztec'ing (best example being the paint job on the Star Trek Enterprise) is what I am after.  I have used mask in the reflectance shaders and they do work well, but a part of me wants a slight variation to the amount of reflectivity across the surface of the model --- as if each plate on the ship had a slightly different painting process. My hopes is that the variation shader (in combination with a mask) will help do that.

    Dave

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    I like the new take system a lot. This is going to save a lot of filespace and file versions. Best new feature. The variables for path names are great, too... as well as the new spline tools. The color checker is nice and I'll use it more often than cogwheels ^^ Also the variation shader is going to help from time to time.

    While these are nice additions I also think it's not enough for a full release. Improving existing stuff is what we need... we're still waiting for the old stuff to get better. I actually expected more modeling tool improvements. But the only thing that's mentioned on the MAXON feature list in the "modeling" tab is the spline tool. Nothing else is there :(

    So I think it's 50% nice and 50% meh. Just like in R16 Tracker development time could have been directed at modeling or UV enhancements. BUT I think 50% nice is worth the MSA.

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    "MAXON Announces Milestone Cinema 4D Release 17"

    Not the headline I would have picked....

    Dude, my thoughts exactly, it feels more like a point-five release than a full one. 
    I was expecting patch modeling, or better unwrap, maybe a PBR export, or a decent baking, or so, so many things C4D has set aside for a decade or so... Certainly doesn't justifies the price at all. then again, the animation and render upgrades could do, if I were into animation.

    I feel like I should be starting to pick learning another tool soon, but I have been using C4D since 5XL... may as well try MODO, as you mention.

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    I've run into problems recently with C4D, resulting in numerous workarounds and time lost on projects with functions that should simply work as intended by MAXON, but start to fall apart with complex scenes. 

    tell me about it, I had several of those recently and under a deadline. 

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    Guest pixelmutt

    Can the new Lens Distortion shader/Render FX achieve a spherical render?

    I'm pretty disappointed that this release does not appear to add any native support for dome/immersive stereo rendering. This is standard in all other competing packages and a no-brainer, considering how much is happening with VR right now.

    Please someone tell me I'm just missing it from the new features (lens distortion shader?)...

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    Having read a lot of the comments on the new release of R17 and most people not getting what they had hoped for makes me wonder… Surely MAXON add the features that people ask for rather than just adding stuff that they think people might like? I mean there is a link on the website asking for feature requests isn't there? In which case a load of users have what they wanted and there is just dissension here…

    If I have missed this please forgive my naivety :-)

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    Having read a lot of the comments on the new release of R17 and most people not getting what they had hoped for makes me wonder… Surely MAXON add the features that people ask for rather than just adding stuff that they think people might like? I mean there is a link on the website asking for feature requests isn't there? In which case a load of users have what they wanted and there is just dissension here…

    If I have missed this please forgive my naivety :-)

    Well, apparently, most people wanted a new spline tool, despite the fact that anyone who's serious about splines is not going to be tempted away from Illustrator. And a new colour picker... yeah, now there's something people were just crying out for...

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    Well, apparently, most people wanted a new spline tool, despite the fact that anyone who's serious about splines is not going to be tempted away from Illustrator. And a new colour picker... yeah, now there's something people were just crying out for...

    I love illustrator. but i would rather do it right in C4D. so i really hope the new spline tools are as good as they seem.

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