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Hrvoje

MAXON announces R17

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Well, apparently, most people wanted a new spline tool, despite the fact that anyone who's serious about splines is not going to be tempted away from Illustrator. And a new colour picker... yeah, now there's something people were just crying out for...

LOL!

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It seems like the professional animators are thrilled with the improvements because of the productivity gains, it's obviously going to save them a lot of time, while everyone else who is interested in modeling, texturing and rendering is very disappointed.  The first time I read the short list of improvements I thought it was an April fools joke but after watching all the videos on cineversity it's not so bad, they are definitely hoping to insert Cinema 4D into the pipeline by targeting the professional animator, especially the motion graphics animator,  they own that market segment.    I don't believe they are ignorant fools, quite the opposite, they have built a multi-million dollar business and they know how to make a buck much better than most of us.   Follow the money.  

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Well, apparently, most people wanted a new spline tool, despite the fact that anyone who's serious about splines is not going to be tempted away from Illustrator. And a new colour picker... yeah, now there's something people were just crying out for...

To be fair, improved spline tools and render layers (New Take system) had been requested by users and definitely by Beta Testers.

Now the reason why Bodypaint hasn't seen any love is it's tightly integrated with the core. It's at the point where to make it comparable to what other apps can do with UV's the core needs rewriting. The core is also the bottleneck for faster object handling. I'm making a big guess but I suspect Maxon has been rewriting the core for the last 5 years or so. Don't know for sure, they don't tell Beta testers anything about what's on the road map.

Apart from being overpriced the next big issue with Cinema 4D is Maxon's poor communication with their customers. A lot of the dissention from users over the R17 release could be negated by a few reassuring words that faster object handling and an upgraded Bodypaint is coming.

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.Apart from being overpriced the next big issue with Cinema 4D is MAXON's poor communication with their customers. A lot of the dissention from users over the R17 release could be negated by a few reassuring words that faster object handling and an upgraded Bodypaint is coming.

I absolutely agree! They really should do that.

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To be fair, improved spline tools and render layers (New Take system) had been requested by users and definitely by Beta Testers.

Is there anyone who's doing serious spline work who's not running Illustrator beside C4D? And it's not like it's a runaround to get your paths over and into C4D. It's also not something I remember ever cropping up in the endless "What you want in the next release" threads. Sure, somebody will have said it at some point but it's certainly not something that sticks in my mind as a repeated request from users.

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Yes....Studio owners should get a steep discount on the Houdini Engine License for the points you mentioned.  Now they do have a Houdini Indie license for $199 and Houdini Engine Indie for $99.  Now the big question is what HDA's are being developed for C4D.  Right now, the results at the Orbolt store really aren't that impressive -- particularly given the potential available within Houdini. Their good, the mesher and copy HDA's show some interesting promise, but there is a foam and FLiP solver (with airfield) HDA that has yet to be made available for C4D.  That is what I am waiting for as large scale fluid sims seems to be the last gap in the C4D/X-Particle/DPIT arsenal.   X-Particles's FLiP solver is very good, but not quite at the level of Houdini's.  I have all the confidence that the X-Particle's team will get there though.

So if MAXON threw in the Houdini Engine for Studio owners, then I think that would help shore up the difference in MSA costs vs. the value quite nicely.

Dave

Agreed, if MAXON subsidized the Houdini Engine license or such for Studio owners, _that_ might make the Studio upgrade/MSA cost palatable, but otherwise all Studio users seem to receive is the ability to go spend a LOT more money with another company.  That won't happen, of course.  Worst part is that Houdini Engine integration will likely become an excuse for not upgrading native particles, etc. which means even less real value for Studio versus other levels, yet Studio pricing remains the same.  

I'm very, very disappointed with MAXON's treatment of Studio customers this release.  MAXON needed to provide significant, real value in C4D-internal features/improvements for Studio customers in order to justify charging Studio customers so much more, and they did not.  I just hope enough other Studio customers express their disappointment at being charged so much more than other levels for a release with so few Studio-level features.  

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Is there anyone who's doing serious spline work who's not running Illustrator beside C4D? And it's not like it's a runaround to get your paths over and into C4D. It's also not something I remember ever cropping up in the endless "What you want in the next release" threads. Sure, somebody will have said it at some point but it's certainly not something that sticks in my mind as a repeated request from users.

If Nigel is correct in his guess that MAXON have been rewriting the core for the last 4/5 years then features such as improved splines could be considered a smart 'treading water' strategy. Hardly earth shattering in their innovation but solidifying C4D's position in broadcast/mograph, where splines are an essential part of the toolset.

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I switched to Maya a few months ago and never looked back. I found that my scenes were getting increasingly complex and C4D just wasn't up to the task. I constantly battled with things like frequent crashes that were very difficult to troubleshoot, texture files that were no longer being used by a shader were still referenced by C4D and considered "missing" which necessitated total shader rebuilds, totally nonfunctional  Xref system and the list goes on.

I also ran into a ton of trouble with third party replacements for features that probably should exist or be better in 3D software of this price range. VrayForC4D is incomplete, buggy and rarely updated, and once you add up the cost of assembling a complete 3D package (renderer, particles, etc), the price is astronomical.

Maya = $140/month, and I have to be honest - the combination of Maya and Vray (directly from Chaos Group, thanks) is AWESOME.

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MAXON needs to communicate more about what is coming up on a release, they don't have to give details but something like:  coming in R17 some spline tool updates and a render enhancement . .  see you aren't spilling the beans but dangling a carrot about what is coming.

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To be fair, improved spline tools and render layers (New Take system) had been requested by users and definitely by Beta Testers.

Now the reason why Bodypaint hasn't seen any love is it's tightly integrated with the core. It's at the point where to make it comparable to what other apps can do with UV's the core needs rewriting. The core is also the bottleneck for faster object handling. I'm making a big guess but I suspect MAXON has been rewriting the core for the last 5 years or so. Don't know for sure, they don't tell Beta testers anything about what's on the road map.

Apart from being overpriced the next big issue with Cinema 4D is MAXON's poor communication with their customers. A lot of the dissention from users over the R17 release could be negated by a few reassuring words that faster object handling and an upgraded Bodypaint is coming.

I would be astounded if an updated BP was not Studio only.

http://www.polygonal-design.fr/e_unfold/videoplayerpage.php?videoID=whatIsUnfold3D

Sick and tired of BP's old UV tools? Get Unfold 3d you won't regret it. I was going to go to 3D coat, but the Udims leave a lot to be desired. I also read that the guy who developed Coat would have to rewrite a lot of the app to fix it, and he didn't really want to.

 

A bit OT but check out this new Siggraph modeling tech paper.

 

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Now the reason why Bodypaint hasn't seen any love is it's tightly integrated with the core. It's at the point where to make it comparable to what other apps can do with UV's the core needs rewriting. The core is also the bottleneck for faster object handling. I'm making a big guess but I suspect MAXON has been rewriting the core for the last 5 years or so. Don't know for sure, they don't tell Beta testers anything about what's on the road map.

I know MAXON isn't used to work for nothing that's why I had afraid when they released the UV Peeler last year, why working on this if they have a plan to release a new version of Bodypaint? As well as the new "enhanced" symmetry tool. Those little things make me say we still maybe have to wait much longer for the core rewriting.

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I know MAXON isn't used to work for nothing that's why I had afraid when they released the UV Peeler last year, why working on this if they have a plan to release a new version of Bodypaint? As well as the new "enhanced" symmetry tool. Those little things make me say we still maybe have to wait much longer for the core rewriting.

Possibly it was practice at writing a UV tool and learning C4D's SDK.

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