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Hrvoje

MAXON announces R17

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ha :)

Isn't that a tad harsh? Finally development goes up your alley. Autotangents are awesome and workflow improvements are really nice. There are some hidden gems now such as constrain line for keeping key on axis and multiple bugfixes. Also, performance is much better in scenes with a lot of keys. Too bad that many of this things are not listed anywhere.

Sorry I don't think it's harsh. Yes finally I got some updates that will make a difference for my work, but it's several years since there were any improvements to the timeline (R10?) and now in R17 we got two main features, one of which there was already a script for, and both of which are old news in other animation programs. The Euler Filter video on the MAXON site almost made it seem like it was some amazing new technology that's just been developed by MAXON, but no,  it's a fundamental feature that should have been included years ago.

And looking at the timeline there are so many areas where it could still be improved, but as far as I know this might be it now for another 5 years..

So yes, I'm happy the new features are there and for sure they will make my job easier but I'd hoped to see so much more to be honest. I spoke directly with the developer who worked on the new animation tools earlier this year (MAXON contacted me and asked me to) and I sent a lot of suggestions that I hoped would make it in, and along with a couple of other animators we had dozens of emails back and forth about what we'd like to see. So for sure I was personally invested in seeing more progress in this area. I'm not blaming the developer though, he told us to manage our expectations as there was only so much he could do for one release. I just wish MAXON had put more resources into animation improvements and hired several people to work on them and gave us some really significant improvements instead of 'we finally fixed/added a couple of things that were long overdue'.

Cheers,

Brian

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As a hobby user, the MSA was always a bit of an indulgence, so these modest changes are not hitting the mark for me.

I'm certainly not excited by this release, particularly since I have the Visualise version which misses out on some of the headline changes entirely. The spline features look interesting, but I'm struggling to justify the cost to myself for just that.

Highlighting the colour picker as a headline is a bit of a stretch !

I appreciate the cost calculations in the thread, I wondered how skipping a version or two might turn out. I'm tempted to bail out of the MSA for now...

 

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Now....if MAXON actually worked out a deal for Studio users to get a 50% discount on Houdini Engine (a $500 value)...

Do you remember times when MAXON announced Lite version for free included in AE. These times we also ask/wait for some discount also for Cinema4D users to buy AE cheap...

 Did you got it cheaper? Also on other side, if you allready own Houdini Engine?(but this is another story)

Hard to say what they mean "Houdini Engine Support"...

Lubo

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  • @Brian

    The reason I thought it was a bit harsh is because you were directly involved and asked for feedback and input from developers themselves. I was not sure if I could mention that due to my NDA but glad you did. There was only so much that could have been done in single cycle regarding those requests...

     


    Free C4D trainings from MAXON professional on our youtube channel

     

    https://www.youtube.com/c4dcafe

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    But that's why I'm disappointed I guess - if I hadn't known the animation tools were being worked on I guess it would be a nice surprise to see the Euler Filter/Auto Tangents today but knowing there was work being done in that area made me optimistic that we would see more progress in that area for R17. We asked for a lot more in the hope we would get maybe 30-50% of what we asked for. But R17 seems to me more like 10-20% of those requests if even that. Maybe there's more in there but I'm sure if they had fixed/changed some of the major features we talked about we would have heard about them today.

     

    Anyway, I want to get off this negative vibe, I'm happy that we do have the Euler Filter/Auto Tangents and I look forward to having R17 being a little easier to animate in. I just hope MAXON will keep that developer on the staff and will have more animation improvements in R18 rather than in several versions time.

    Cheers,

    Brian

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    Yep.  I hear that BUT..  the the default installation wiped cc2014 and left a lot of users scratching their heads.  Release it as a preview of things to come not a full blown release - sorry off-topic I know.

    Because last release (2014) people were complaining that they had two installs of Creative Cloud Apps.

    You just can't win when your in software development. 

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    There are some hidden gems now such as constrain line for keeping key on axis and multiple bugfixes. Also, performance is much better in scenes with a lot of keys. Too bad that many of this things are not listed anywhere.

    Hi HSrdelic,
    bugfixes are for updates, new features are for upgrades. If not all goodies are listed, why not just do it? This can easily be done.
    While I myself was very critical earlier today, I am now have more of the wait and see attitude. I'll wait till the software arrives, being on the MSA program, it won't take that long, I guess. New nifty features and major overhauls are on everyone's wish list. But what also count, are the small enhancements, time savers and workflow improvements. That performance is better with many keys, as you write, means a lot to me. I will grant you a breathing pause, and look forward to test R17. I onder what the FBX enhancements mean, I use FBX a lot (import FBX). About the 
    Euler Filter, it is very useful indeed,  I wrote something similar more than a year ago, in a C++ plugin (for my own use at the moment).
    To sum it up: In my opinion, very much software nowadays  is rather mature, and what is needed, are those workflow improvements, to save time and make me more productive. If R17 can do that, it will justify the upgrade, for me. But please make a complete list of the improvements!
    -Ingvar

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    Looking a little deeper into the takes. The videos on Cineversity have made that feature a lot more interesting/exciting to me. Very useful!

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    The takes look fantastic!
    And the tokens for render paths look great.

    But nobody has mentioned this yet: named object buffers. WE HAVE NAMED OBJECT BUFFERS AT LAST!!!

    That's MSA-worthy by itself! (Not really, but it is nice!)

    I'm going to recommend we upgrade our stuff here to R17. The new spline tools look great too. I'm also very interested in the Variation shader and the animation enhancements too.

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    Sorry I don't think it's harsh. Yes finally I got some updates that will make a difference for my work, but it's several years since there were any improvements to the timeline (R10?) and now in R17 we got two main features, one of which there was already a script for, and both of which are old news in other animation programs. The Euler Filter video on the MAXON site almost made it seem like it was some amazing new technology that's just been developed by MAXON, but no,  it's a fundamental feature that should have been included years ago.

    And looking at the timeline there are so many areas where it could still be improved, but as far as I know this might be it now for another 5 years..

    So yes, I'm happy the new features are there and for sure they will make my job easier but I'd hoped to see so much more to be honest. I spoke directly with the developer who worked on the new animation tools earlier this year (MAXON contacted me and asked me to) and I sent a lot of suggestions that I hoped would make it in, and along with a couple of other animators we had dozens of emails back and forth about what we'd like to see. So for sure I was personally invested in seeing more progress in this area. I'm not blaming the developer though, he told us to manage our expectations as there was only so much he could do for one release. I just wish MAXON had put more resources into animation improvements and hired several people to work on them and gave us some really significant improvements instead of 'we finally fixed/added a couple of things that were long overdue'.

    Cheers,

    Brian

     

    I know you had posted a large list of stuff a long while ago. Someone asked me to go through them point by point and give my thoughts to them(in a message). While not everything is done from the list(and honestly theres several things I disagree with should be the way things are done, but several I wholly agree with as well), the following from your list have been implemented in R17:

    Flipping Keys cycles when you reach the start or end(a behavior I hate, but I guess I have to live with)
    Correct Curve colors
    Weighted or Non-Weight Tangents
    Native Euler Filter
    Tidier F-Curves(no more seeing your elbow and wrist when you select the shoulder, thank goodness)
    Better Auto-Tangents

    While it's easier to dismiss things by saying "Oh it should have been there years ago", remember that every app has this problem(every other app by that logic should have a mograph equivalent long ago, right?). Remeber there's plenty of users who don't use other programs, or maybe not other larger DCC, so these changes while seemingly minor and overdue, become very welcome to users of C4D . We've all expericenced that stupid overshoot for no reason, and we can now say sayonara mother ^%@!er to him. :).

    Really though, apart from the scaling curves(which I would rather we make the region tool work more like photoshop's transform for this), any Maya animator will feel much more at Home animating in C4D.

     

     

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    The takes look fantastic!
    And the tokens for render paths look great.

    But nobody has mentioned this yet: named object buffers. WE HAVE NAMED OBJECT BUFFERS AT LAST!!!

    That's MSA-worthy by itself! (Not really, but it is nice!)

    I'm going to recommend we upgrade our stuff here to R17. The new spline tools look great too. I'm also very interested in the Variation shader and the animation enhancements too.

    Named object buffers - super duper!
    MAXON listens! I guess it took at least 30 minutes to program this ;)
    Well, sarcasm aside, R17 looks better and better the more I read about it. Pity you have to register at Cineversity to watch the most interesting videos. Naw, named object buffers are indeed wanted. Why it hasn't been that way from the beginning, is another question.
    And Takes - if it is as interesting as it looks, that will be a game changer.
    -Ingvar

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    Thanks Bret, I'm glad to hear they finally fixed the curve colors, I was just cursing those again today after a week of animating in Maya and then switching back to C4D, catches me every time :)

     

    Regarding flipping keys, nice that they changed that, I hope the bug with it in R15/16 is gone though, I frequently run into a mouse-focus issue where the flip keys command stops working altogether when my cursor is over the timeline instead of the viewport, drives me nuts when polishing sometimes.

    The other improvements are very welcome too. I wish they could have worked on the UI side of things too though, the per-object mode in the rotate tool is still suboptimal, I'd really like a more channel-box style UI where you could only show animatable parameters for controllers, I wish I could make the powersilder taller (I seem to constantly select and move keys by mistake in it) and I wish they'd change AutoKey to something that doesn't key everything you touch if you're not careful. The behavior in After Effects or Maya is something I think is much better where only channels that have keys on them already get keyed with auto key on.

    And there's the interactive scaling, filtering by channel type and a few others I'm forgetting right now.

    {EDIT - oh yeah, one that I could really use - a simple way to save out and reload animation data, ideally in a human readable format, not motion clips which bakes like mocap, but something that only does the keyframes, like ATOM in Maya,  I use that all the time and could really use a native equivalent in C4D. I've used Harvester in the past but found it didn't always seem to want to work here and I got crashes etc with it.

    So yeah, good to have the improvements we have, but I hope it's just a start and they get built on for R18.

     

    Cheers,

    Brian

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