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Fastbee

Leaving or staying with C4D for what and why?

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Don't forget that, although Hjorve works for MAXON, that thread was not anything officially sanctioned and was just off his own back so gives no indication that anything is going to change.

Plus virtually everything that people brought up Maxon already knew about. What's coming in R18 will have already been decided  and coding will be well advanced.

 

 

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The trouble with the, "it's only a couple of days work for the MSA" attitude however correct that may be is that there is still a shear lack of features in the R17 update. If everyone found every single new feature useful it would STILL be a very light release. It's not the money that's the problem it's the lack of ambition MAXON have for bringing C4D up to date and keeping features moving forward all the while we're told they've employed more developers.

I was drawn to C4D due to the developments of Mograph and what now seems like halcyon days in the life of C4D where Mograph was being developed, bullet dynamics were added, more deformers were added etc etc. There was a great period where features were added and workflow was being addressed. Fast forward a few years and Mograph is tired, dynamics is tired, Xpresso is a joke for performance and the object handling is a real impediment for anyone trying to time action in complex scene.

If R17 that is billed as a milestone release is what we're to expect from future updates then more and more of C4D will be going the way of Bodypaint and atrophy into uselessness. XParticles is actually replacing a lot of what I used Mograph for because even within the constraints of the C4D API it performs better than MAXON's own toolset, I wonder how many more plugins I'll require to pick up the slack because MAXON cannot be bothered to keep the application current?

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Plus virtually everything that people brought up MAXON already knew about. What's coming in R18 will have already been decided  and coding will be well advanced.

 

 

Like most software companies they have a roadmap for upcoming features and which release will have them. I am surprised why this release was light compared to R16 and some earlier versions.

I wonder if Cinema 4D is getting to be like Adobe Photoshop where there are fewer features on the roadmap so they spread it out with subsequent versions. I don't think Cinema 4D is at the feature saturation point that Adobe Photoshop is currently but if you look at Maya releases the past few years the number of new features has been slim also.

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and the object handling is a real impediment for anyone trying to time action in complex scene.

^This! Yes, yes, THIS. Dear God, THIS!!!  I challenge anyone trying to chop up photoreal strands of DNA to not pull their hair out in the process.

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Sorry to see you guys thinking about switching or jumping ship, hard to see such sentiment on cafe :/
This release certainly may not be suiting to everyone, but Takes are really big feature. A long requested one from vast pool of users. Same goes for improved spline tools. Animation improvements also. Not to mention that there are thigns that are not listed, for example improvements of constraints.
I definitely just want to state out that if I wouldn't truly believe in MAXON and current development I would be the first one to leave. Please have in mind that I was a freelancer for 10 years before I joined MAXON and was actually quite capable user and know Cinema practically inside out, therefore I know all the good things and shortcomings of it. What you may not know is that software development is intricate and delicate process to maximum extent you can imagine. It is relatively easy to deliver new features and power but that is almost always wrapped up in very complex and difficult form for final user, usually quite unstable across platform or the entry ticket for most users is simply too high (think Houdini - very powerful but not user friendly). On the other hand, creating equally powerful, fast performing, modern, easy to use, reliable and stable application of such scope is very difficult task. That is why there are just handful of 3D applications in the world. Takes system was a massive undertaking and I can already see shift in thoughts from watching videos alone, yet the shift which will happen once users start to use it.

 

 

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The box hasn't arrived yet. That's my answer to this.
@Hjorve
The more I look at the new features, the more I feel that R17 is right up my alley. I agree that Takes is something that will be a game changer. 
> That is why there are just handful of 3D applications in the world.
Good point!

-Ingvar

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Much respect to you @Hjorve for not interceding to every negative sentiment posted on the forum. It's very difficult when you have such a passion for a product to allow people to freely let off steam about their disappointments. If you're to continue to run the Cafe in this manner it will continue to be a fantastic resource. 

Enabling people to spout off their concerns in an uncensored fashion without a barrage of evangelical defences (even when the negative comments are unfair) is the sign of a healthy forum. Long may you continue this approach here.

jm

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I was never against heated argument, neither Nigel was, even when it turns out into bashing and trolling I think censoring is simply not good idea. Yes, we will remove cursing, insults, inappropriate language or similar according to cafe rules :=)

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... Not to mention that there are thigns that are not listed, for example improvements of constraints.

 

Ahaaaa :) now this is something that should/must be somewhere to read, ok MAXON plublished the biggests features BUT this "small" things can make a huge difference in the opinions of this new release.

Is it possible to have a detail list of all this "small" improvements, please?

Cheers,

Juan

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I was never against heated argument, neither Nigel was, even when it turns out into bashing and trolling I think censoring is simply not good idea. Yes, we will remove cursing, insults, inappropriate language or similar according to cafe rules :=)

Easier said than done. A few people have commented to me over the years that they've always appreciated the approach Nigel (and now you) take with the Cafe. This compares very differently to the atmosphere over on CGTalk where negative complaints are often shouted down in a barrage of evangelical zeal from some quarters. People have individual needs and experiences in the DCC packages they choose to use, especially with packages such as C4D and Modo, which have huge swathes of hobbyists amongst their users; so all views (negative or positive) have importance.

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