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Leaving or staying with C4D for what and why?


Fastbee

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Let's just do a short recap of what happened in this, lengthy 24 page topic.

Some members were simply disappointed when R17 came out since they didn't find the feature set to be appealing to them, which is absolutely fine and they were very vocal and certainly expressed their negativity in this forum like in no other forum - fine also, since Cafe allows heated discussions. Then some members expressed their dissatisfaction on MAXON company policy of not disclosing it's development plans and not communicating with it's customers as they would like too which is also completely valid. The problematic part is when some members started to conduct in manner which is completely unprofessional and impolite, and that roughly sums up to attacking MAXON employees or contractors acting in their own in this forum, simply trying to pass along or share information which they can, bring some calm to things and hinting that MAXON is in fact, well aware of everything mentioned. This extended to labeling MAXON employees and contractors as detached, unfit, incompetent, stupid, unaware, fanboys and even unable to communicate at all. It is really nice to be able to offend hundreds of people that work for MAXON by questioning their intelligence, skillset, education and social abilities hidden behind computer screen - really cool.
That coupled with ultimatums and even bulletin points on what, how, or when a company should do something, along with juvenile nickname inventions for me and Srek, wild speculations about software development and other matters into which they have practically zero insight and knowledge, but that hasn't stopped them debating about things they have no clue about. And all that because of..?

Because of simple company policy which does not reveal it's roadmap or development plans.

And I repeatedly said, that company policy will change, but I don't know to what extent. So folks, even though Patrick, Rick, Bernd and me personally gave you maximum amount of information we could without breaking company rule, and went outside our job description to ensure you, even by putting our professional credibility on the line, and even hinting things that are bordering on breaking NDA that is simply not enough. How do you guys think that makes us feel? I can speak only for myself, but it feels quite bad. So all my knowledge, years of freelancing, training line, thousands of posts on cafe where I helped members with guidance and scene files, helping running the Cafe, buying it from Nigel when he decided to step down, having insight into development simply doesn't give me enough credibility here to even make someone at least to think a bit before posting and using me as a punching bag because he can't simply accept facts and is looking to vent out personal frustrations on someone he believes to be representing MAXON.
So, at the end of the topic, even with confirmation on what is being asked for is delivered, and the fact that communication strategy will change, it seems that some members are simply looking for anything they can interpret as negative in posts and then continue with behavior which I can only describe as bullying, not feedback as stated by Cutman who simply fails to understand that you can't pass experiences from one company to another and use same business model. There could be numerous specifics and circumstances which render that impossible but somehow that is slipping his mind.
 

So, where does that leave me? I can't and will never reveal development plans, strategy or roadmaps, nor I decide on how communication is or how will be done. All that I could possibly do I already did. I called MAXON product management to this thread, gave all the answers I could from personal standpoint, let the topic open even when it was obvious it is just a frustration&bashing thread. In return I was crucified for defending a company right to choose what it will reveal or not, while taking in insults and attacks ranging from juvenile comments to career change propositions -  thanks for that guys, really cool :thumbsup:

This all leaves me with very bad taste and seriously drops my enthusiasm about this forum. It may be that my English is simply not good enough to explain my position, therefore I will simply excuse myself and never again in future try to help, convey information, collect data, put things in motion, drop hints or in general go way outside my job description to benefit this community and all C4D users.

 

 

 

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Just when you thought MAXON gets it you realise they don't.

HSrdelic, one moment your are saying you're not talking for MAXON then in the next breath you're saying you're here conveying information and dropping hints. Call me confused.

I am going to read and go by what Rick says because I think MAXON US do understand what customers want in terms of dialogue and it isn't hints however capable the person is doing the hinting.

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HSrdelic, one moment your are saying you're not talking for MAXON then in the next breath you're saying you're here conveying information and dropping hints. Call me confused.

I don't see how that can confuse you. Company policy is not preventing me from conveying information to where it needs to be conveyed...

 

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I don't see how that can confuse you. Company policy is not preventing me from conveying information to where it needs to be conveyed...

 

But you aren't conveying the information we want, hints mean nothing. For the avoidance of doubt, we don't want a roadmap or company secrets we want information like Rick relayed regarding Bodypaint. I would like to know if the object handling performance is actively being worked on and if it is a big long job manage this expectations.

Why does it have to be a battle to get a reasonable level of communication going?

Look at your competitors and see how much more information they share with their customers or your future customers if that helps concentrate the mind. The cynic in me is beginning to think if we scratch too deeply we might not like what we find. That the genius programmers who started C4D have long gone fishing and there's a bunch of second raters left who think the perpetual MSA payments are only for buggy amateur level features, repackaged 3rd party plugins and content browser presets, you know, the stuff that's been served up for the last few releases.

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Cutman... just switch to a different software, you clearly have some rage problems... 

 

R17 has fixed a lot of workflow issues. And so far from what i see hasn't broken anything *cough* multi editing of reflect mats *cough*

 

MAXON is a company in a free market, it can choose to reveal as much or as little as it wants. it can switch to producing toilet paper if it wants to. 

Your language has gone to some ridiculous level, as if you are talking to someone who owes you something and you are entitled to your candy, like a fat spoilt kid to a crumbling mother... 

@hSrdelic: Don't be discouraged by the minority. :) we all love you. 

 

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Cutman... just switch to a different software, you clearly have some rage problems... 

 

Do please explain. Please highlight anything I've written where I've flown into a rage.

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But you aren't conveying the information we want, hints mean nothing. For the avoidance of doubt, we don't want a roadmap or company secrets we want information like Rick relayed regarding Bodypaint. I would like to know if the object handling performance is actively being worked on and if it is a big long job manage this expectations.

Why does it have to be a battle to get a reasonable level of communication going?

Look at your competitors and see how much more information they share with their customers or your future customers if that helps concentrate the mind. The cynic in me is beginning to think if we scratch too deeply we might not like what we find. That the genius programmers who started C4D have long gone fishing and there's a bunch of second raters left who think the perpetual MSA payments are only for buggy amateur level features, repackaged 3rd party plugins and content browser presets, you know, the stuff that's been served up for the last few releases.

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Let's not get carried away. This is part of a usual series that Digital Tutors create. Similar releases in recent years have included Cinema 4D for Maya Artists, Maya for Cinema 4D Artists (add 3ds Max, Softimage where appropriate) etc. It's just the timing that's unfortunate for MAXON, not some kind of coordinated effort by Digital Tutors and The Foundry.

The world of software marketing is cutthroat, but there's no conspiracy against MAXON, just a bunch of vendors attacking Maxons current weaknesses. I personally believe MAXON have created this weak position for themselves but I'm sure they'll fight back.

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I personally want to thank HSrdelic for keeping this forum going and for his support here and through VP tutorials. I was underwhelmed with this release of C4D, but I am dismayed by the unprofessional tone of some of the personal attacks on this forum. I own Modo as well, and for me, it may be better in certain areas, but is not a reasonable alternative overall for what I need to do.

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Let's not get carried away. This is part of a usual series that Digital Tutors create. Similar releases in recent years have included Cinema 4D for Maya Artists, Maya for Cinema 4D Artists (add 3ds Max, Softimage where appropriate) etc. It's just the timing that's unfortunate for MAXON, not some kind of coordinated effort by Digital Tutors and The Foundary.

The world of software marketing is cutthroat, but there's no conspiracy against MAXON, just a bunch of vendors attacking Maxons current weaknesses. I personally believe MAXON have created this weak position for themselves but I'm sure they'll fight back.

But that was my point exactly. More of cheap shots at MAXON, not a conspiracy. :)

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Guest cinemajames

I personally want to thank HSrdelic for keeping this forum going and for his support here and through VP tutorials. I was underwhelmed with this release of C4D, but I am dismayed by the unprofessional tone of some of the personal attacks on this forum. I own Modo as well, and for me, it may be better in certain areas, but is not a reasonable alternative overall for what I need to do.

Totally agree. Also have Modo. Its no C4D replacement. More complementary. 

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