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Fastbee

Leaving or staying with C4D for what and why?

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They're not locked into anyting if they don't want to be. They control 100% of the process. If they want to make a one-time extension of people's MSAs who purchased version x or y, and they want to add four months to the dev cycle to include something not currently planned, they can. I agree with you they most likely *won't*, based on past precedent. But the past doesn't lock them into anything, if we're being honest. They can choose to change their policies, schedule, what they charge... whatwever they want.

In all honesty, the release cycle is pretty much locked in. There's no way to extend people's MSAs at no cost as you're suggesting - that would actually border on being illegal. Your MSA fees are deferred and recognized over a 12 month period. My understanding is that we can deliver whatever "service" to MSA customers we want within that 12 month period because we're recognizing revenue from them in that period, but we can't deliver service when we're not recognizing revenue. We could potentially defer over a longer period, but we don't, and I'm not sure if there's a way to change that deferral once it's started. I know you're tired of hearing this, but it's all Enron's fault. Companies that aren't public don't have to worry about it (we're public by nature of our relationship to Nemetschek).

But the release schedule and boring accounting details are beside the point. It's a good thing that MAXON has to deliver something at least once a year, and it's important that MAXON communicates with you and delivers something in line with expectations.

 

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I am staying with C4D because I think there will be an interesting update in the near future give or take a release. I am comfortable with the program, I love the workflow and as a hobbyist it works best for me.

@Rick, I appreciate all the communication you are and are trying to do with us.  I feel for you, in some cases you are in a no win situation no matter what you say or don't say. Have fun in Germany, if you time the corporate visit right you'll be there for OctoberFest. :lol:

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Have fun in Germany, if you time the corporate visit right you'll be there for OctoberFest. :lol:

Ha - I'll be a week early and on the wrong side of Germany. But thanks for the thought.

 

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In all honesty, the release cycle is pretty much locked in. There's no way to extend people's MSAs at no cost as you're suggesting - that would actually border on being illegal. Your MSA fees are deferred and recognized over a 12 month period. My understanding is that we can deliver whatever "service" to MSA customers we want within that 12 month period because we're recognizing revenue from them in that period, but we can't deliver service when we're not recognizing revenue. We could potentially defer over a longer period, but we don't, and I'm not sure if there's a way to change that deferral once it's started. I know you're tired of hearing this, but it's all Enron's fault. Companies that aren't public don't have to worry about it (we're public by nature of our relationship to Nemetschek).

But the release schedule and boring accounting details are beside the point. It's a good thing that MAXON has to deliver something at least once a year, and it's important that MAXON communicates with you and delivers something in line with expectations.

 

The problem is the MSA. No MSA no need for a yearly dev cycle. I completely understand why MAXON/Nemetschek use the MSA model. It's a guaranteed revenue stream. But at the same time has led to several mediocre releases and is the sole reason I have not renewed my commercial license in several years. I can't stand the yearly dev cycle and am aware that a lot of software makers follow this model. But at least (for now) with modo I can skip releases and not be penalized when I do choose to upgrade.

I prefer C4D over modo but the expense/value is not there for me. BTW, thank you for being visible in the forum. You helped me out with a serial number problem I had several years ago and you took care of it as soon as you saw my message on CG Society. And I think it was on a weekend. I have always considered you one of the good guys.

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In all honesty, the release cycle is pretty much locked in. There's no way to extend people's MSAs at no cost as you're suggesting - that would actually border on being illegal. Your MSA fees are deferred and recognized over a 12 month period. My understanding is that we can deliver whatever "service" to MSA customers we want within that 12 month period because we're recognizing revenue from them in that period, but we can't deliver service when we're not recognizing revenue. We could potentially defer over a longer period, but we don't, and I'm not sure if there's a way to change that deferral once it's started. I know you're tired of hearing this, but it's all Enron's fault. Companies that aren't public don't have to worry about it (we're public by nature of our relationship to Nemetschek).

But the release schedule and boring accounting details are beside the point. It's a good thing that MAXON has to deliver something at least once a year, and it's important that MAXON communicates with you and delivers something in line with expectations.

 

I don't disagree it's nice to have a reliable 12 month release cycle. All I'm saying is I'm sure MAXON's lawyers are just as creative as everyone else's and if the desire was there to improve the business model, and that included a longer dev cycle or perhaps a cycle that wasn't always exactly 12 months, and MSA wasn't defined exactly as it is now. . . or something else entirely. . . that is within MAXON's power to accomplish.

Obviously I was giving simplistic examples earlier rather than actual business cases; I'm not suggesting I want a longer dev cycle or a different payment system instead of MSA or whatever. I'm just saying, where there's a will to change, there's a way. I don't buy the idea that because a company has done X until now, it must forever continue to do X because the alternative is too complicated. Change is possible. Just up to MAXON as to whether that's what they want. If everything financial is going great with the current system then there won't be much change beyond the communication stuff you mention. Then it's up to us as consumers to do a better job of voting with wallets so that over time the financial security of the status quo is no longer there. That's assuming the next couple upgrades aren't compelling, which I'm not prepared to make that assumption at all. 

I remain cautiously optimistic R18 will be a much bigger splash than the last 2-3 updates and that anyone who skipped a version will be treated fairly WRT to upgrade costs, perhaps with a brief promotion period to avoid the full $1600 cost or whatever the standard is. Again given all this summer's discussions.

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Let's not get lost in the weeds about the release cycle. Developers need deadlines. Several of my own plugins still wouldn't be released if there hadn't been a time incentive to do so. Doesn't mean they're finished, but it means you can use them in the meantime (speaking of which, I still need to post the CV-SmartExport R17 update - oops - look for that tomorrow).

 

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Rick, have you contact with Canadian office? If will possible to influent on them, to bring attention to side-fx forum. I see nobody from developer team of Houdini Engine C4D. Seems Noseman has not answers at a few questions.

Several of my own plugins still wouldn't be released if there hadn't been a time incentive to do so. Doesn't mean they're finished, but it means you can use them in the meantime (speaking of which, I still need to post the CV-SmartExport R17 update - oops - look for that tomorrow).

I check several of mine, need to recode for released r17 sdk. I used legacy switch to support old stuff in r15-16 - it's c++ plug-ins

About SmartExport, does same like http://coffeestock.boo.jp/Blog/?page_id=651?

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I'm not sure if you missed or mis-read my post at the bottom of the previous page... or if I'm misunderstanding you.

BodyPaint development may have stalled for a bit, but is kicking back into gear.

 

That is going to be music to a lot of people's ears!

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That is going to be music to a lot of people's ears!

I agree and it didn't need a committee meeting or a plane trip to Germany to discuss whether a public comment could be made.

I've been one of the more critical and vocal people about Maxon. Even I'm not asking for or suggesting a road map. There's zero chance of Maxon making their road map public when they don't even tell the Beta testers what's coming or seldom do. I'm aware of one thing that's being worked on for R18 and it's not Bodypaint. If Bodypaint is being worked on currently, I have no idea.

All people are asking for is a few scraps of information that the software that they have paid a lot of money for is going to see development in areas that have seemingly been abandoned.

In my opinion software and the way software developers interact with their customers has changed over the years. Virtually everything is done via the internet these days i.e. purchasing and downloading. Similarly, software companies that are highly regarded by their user base have a great 2 way dialogue online and the developer will often be quite upfront about what they are working on. Maxon is probably one of the slowest companies to move with the times. It's really only this year where many people outside of the USA can download R17. Other companies have been doing digital downloads for years.

Back to my motorbike model I'm making in Modo.

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