Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Fastbee

Leaving or staying with C4D for what and why?

Recommended Posts

..... personally I see that Rick Barrett and Jean-François Yelle have this natural ability to communicate. 

AMEN!!

Share this post


Link to post

..... and it didn't need a committee meeting or a plane trip to Germany to discuss whether a public comment could be made.

Damn right!!

Share this post


Link to post
Guest

Secrecy has it's reason. Did you ever consider that? Think about it.

Folks, this topic is simply revolving around users constantly and almost aggressively demanding a company to reveal it's strategy, development plans, technological advancements and secrets and no answer apart from direct laid out roadmap, full feature list for several releases won't make people happy. This is not going to happen or at least it won't happen overnight. Companies in Germany, and in Europe in general are not so open and often don't have spoke persons, it is simply cultural difference. They simply keep things for themselves. All companies have secrets and that is what is keeping them in business. In my experience, almost always, when company reveals it's cards and plays the "we are social media aware and modern company which talks to users" card, then I am sure they have no groundbreaking technology and no breakthrough to offer.

So, instead of closing down this thread, I will rather strongly urge that members keep their posts around original title and discuss why would they leave C4D or not, and can we please, for god sake stop with this bullying where few individuals think they have the right to say a whole company on what it should and how it should do things, not to mention how difficult it is for people who happen to work for MAXON who must take this personally since every attack on MAXON is attack on their intelligence, hard work, contribution in forums in their own private time and desire to bring some peace into minds of many who simply can't get over the fact that they don't know what is cooking inside MAXON.

In a previous life I was an EMC engineer working in an area with access to secret and commercially sensitive information. Our work behind the scenes did not stop our marketing people discussing with customers in general terms about development of products, services and research topics we were engaged in.

Customers need to know we as a company are on the case. We valued repeat business which means constantly having a dialogue with the customer to ensure our products were meeting their current requirements and to see what we could do for the clients' future requirements. We would _never_ find ourselves in the position of having a client wondering what the eff has happened to Bodypaint or whether we had actually noticed our Object Handling was completely atrocious by current competitor standards?

In my own business I will regularly ring round former clients to touch base and do a bit of "jaw jaw" just to let them know we're still here and investing in new equipment and skills and would be delighted to bid for new work.

If your cultural view of Europeans and Germans is right (which it isn't!) then MAXON hasn't got long in business. Have you ever considered what the point of C4D actually is? It's not just for making pretty pictures, it's to help companies with their communication to their customers.

MAXON has chosen not to communicate with their customers and received a bit of customer feedback some of the employees didn't like. If you don't engage in a dialogue and manage customer expectations or respond to them in good time then what do you expect? This will only get worse the more customers are ignored. The MSA is not a right and it is not an excuse for MAXON to print money each year. There are customers on the other side who have expectations of value for money and improvements to workflows that have been asked for years and years.

If you think feedback is bullying I think you need a different job. I've had to deal with customer feedback that I would rather not have received but what did I do about it? I certainly didn't whine about it and blame the nasty customer, I sat down with him and put things right as fast as I could. I hadn't managed his expectations and when he understood the constraints we were under he accepted what we had done was amazing in the time available. It was my fault for not explaining how big an undertaking the job was but in the end he became a very good repeat customer.

So does MAXON want to play with the same rules that govern the rest of us? Reading Rick's responses there is certainly signs of light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Share this post


Link to post

In a previous life I was an EMC engineer working in an area with access to secret and commercially sensitive information. Our work behind the scenes did not stop our marketing people discussing with customers in general terms about development of products, services and research topics we were engaged in.

Customers need to know we as a company are on the case. We valued repeat business which means constantly having a dialogue with the customer to ensure our products were meeting their current requirements and to see what we could do for the clients' future requirements. We would _never_ find ourselves in the position of having a client wondering *** has happened to Bodypaint or whether we had actually noticed our Object Handling was completely atrocious by current competitor standards?

In my own business I will regularly ring round former clients to touch base and do a bit of "jaw jaw" just to let them know we're still here and investing in new equipment and skills and would be delighted to bid for new work.

If your cultural view of Europeans and Germans is right (which it isn't!) then MAXON hasn't got long in business. Have you ever considered what the point of C4D actually is? It's not just for making pretty pictures, it's to help companies with their communication to their customers.

MAXON has chosen not to communicate with their customers and received a bit of customer feedback some of the employees didn't like. If you don't engage in a dialogue and manage customer expectations or respond to them in good time then what do you expect? This will only get worse the more customers are ignored. The MSA is not a right and it is not an excuse for MAXON to print money each year. There are customers on the other side who have expectations of value for money and improvements to workflows that have been asked for years and years.

If you think feedback is bullying I think you need a different job. I've had to deal with customer feedback that I would rather not have received but what did I do about it? I certainly didn't whine about it and blame the nasty customer, I sat down with him and put things right as fast as I could. I hadn't managed his expectations and when he understood the constraints we were under he accepted what we had done was amazing in the time available. It was my fault for not explaining how big an undertaking the job was but in the end he became a very good repeat customer.

So does MAXON want to play with the same rules that govern the rest of us? Reading Rick's responses there is certainly signs of light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Very well said. Sums up the topic perfectly.

Share this post


Link to post

In a previous life I was an EMC engineer working in an area with access to secret and commercially sensitive information. Our work behind the scenes did not stop our marketing people discussing with customers in general terms about development of products, services and research topics we were engaged in.

Customers need to know we as a company are on the case. We valued repeat business which means constantly having a dialogue with the customer to ensure our products were meeting their current requirements and to see what we could do for the clients' future requirements. We would _never_ find ourselves in the position of having a client wondering what the eff has happened to Bodypaint or whether we had actually noticed our Object Handling was completely atrocious by current competitor standards?

In my own business I will regularly ring round former clients to touch base and do a bit of "jaw jaw" just to let them know we're still here and investing in new equipment and skills and would be delighted to bid for new work.

If your cultural view of Europeans and Germans is right (which it isn't!) then MAXON hasn't got long in business. Have you ever considered what the point of C4D actually is? It's not just for making pretty pictures, it's to help companies with their communication to their customers.

MAXON has chosen not to communicate with their customers and received a bit of customer feedback some of the employees didn't like. If you don't engage in a dialogue and manage customer expectations or respond to them in good time then what do you expect? This will only get worse the more customers are ignored. The MSA is not a right and it is not an excuse for MAXON to print money each year. There are customers on the other side who have expectations of value for money and improvements to workflows that have been asked for years and years.

If you think feedback is bullying I think you need a different job. I've had to deal with customer feedback that I would rather not have received but what did I do about it? I certainly didn't whine about it and blame the nasty customer, I sat down with him and put things right as fast as I could. I hadn't managed his expectations and when he understood the constraints we were under he accepted what we had done was amazing in the time available. It was my fault for not explaining how big an undertaking the job was but in the end he became a very good repeat customer.

So does MAXON want to play with the same rules that govern the rest of us? Reading Rick's responses there is certainly signs of light at the end of the tunnel.

 

+1. Great post Cutman!

Share this post


Link to post

I think there's a genuine difference between a software company's choice of roadmap/features vs. their failure to deliver on expectations. It seems that most of the current discontent  with MAXON (in this thread) is their perceived failure of communication and lack of feature parity with Competitors. In both cases they may have failed to satisfy some customers, but they haven't abdicated their responsibility to deliver a workable product. By contrast, Modo 901 (which I do like) was rushed to market and was really a paid beta.  In that case, I believe users had a legitimate grievance as it simply wasn't what was promised (Though I'm guessing the language in the EULA covers them completely as no software is air tight.) There's definitely a difference between going into production with software that is unstable and unpredictable  vs. being disappointed with the current feature set.

In a free market, people can come and go; lots of options. I left C4D after R15 because I was unhappy with the dropping of Net Render for Team Render. I voted with my wallet. MAXON got me back with a good deal on R17 and features I liked. While all companies should listen to feedback, there seems to be this sense that MAXON is obligated to implement features and communications on the user's terms. Yes it makes sense to listen to your users, but the venom displayed in some of these posts isn't productive at all. 

I don't really think this is a MAXON-specific problem right now either. All Creative Content software forums these days have similar complaints; it's either about feature XYZ or licensing models or bug reports. 

Share this post


Link to post

Let's just do a short recap of what happened in this, lengthy 24 page topic.

Some members were simply disappointed when R17 came out since they didn't find the feature set to be appealing to them, which is absolutely fine and they were very vocal and certainly expressed their negativity in this forum like in no other forum - fine also, since Cafe allows heated discussions. Then some members expressed their dissatisfaction on MAXON company policy of not disclosing it's development plans and not communicating with it's customers as they would like too which is also completely valid. The problematic part is when some members started to conduct in manner which is completely unprofessional and impolite, and that roughly sums up to attacking MAXON employees or contractors acting in their own in this forum, simply trying to pass along or share information which they can, bring some calm to things and hinting that MAXON is in fact, well aware of everything mentioned. This extended to labeling MAXON employees and contractors as detached, unfit, incompetent, stupid, unaware, fanboys and even unable to communicate at all. It is really nice to be able to offend hundreds of people that work for MAXON by questioning their intelligence, skillset, education and social abilities hidden behind computer screen - really cool.
That coupled with ultimatums and even bulletin points on what, how, or when a company should do something, along with juvenile nickname inventions for me and Srek, wild speculations about software development and other matters into which they have practically zero insight and knowledge, but that hasn't stopped them debating about things they have no clue about. And all that because of..?

Because of simple company policy which does not reveal it's roadmap or development plans.

And I repeatedly said, that company policy will change, but I don't know to what extent. So folks, even though Patrick, Rick, Bernd and me personally gave you maximum amount of information we could without breaking company rule, and went outside our job description to ensure you, even by putting our professional credibility on the line, and even hinting things that are bordering on breaking NDA that is simply not enough. How do you guys think that makes us feel? I can speak only for myself, but it feels quite bad. So all my knowledge, years of freelancing, training line, thousands of posts on cafe where I helped members with guidance and scene files, helping running the Cafe, buying it from Nigel when he decided to step down, having insight into development simply doesn't give me enough credibility here to even make someone at least to think a bit before posting and using me as a punching bag because he can't simply accept facts and is looking to vent out personal frustrations on someone he believes to be representing MAXON.
So, at the end of the topic, even with confirmation on what is being asked for is delivered, and the fact that communication strategy will change, it seems that some members are simply looking for anything they can interpret as negative in posts and then continue with behavior which I can only describe as bullying, not feedback as stated by Cutman who simply fails to understand that you can't pass experiences from one company to another and use same business model. There could be numerous specifics and circumstances which render that impossible but somehow that is slipping his mind.
 

So, where does that leave me? I can't and will never reveal development plans, strategy or roadmaps, nor I decide on how communication is or how will be done. All that I could possibly do I already did. I called MAXON product management to this thread, gave all the answers I could from personal standpoint, let the topic open even when it was obvious it is just a frustration&bashing thread. In return I was crucified for defending a company right to choose what it will reveal or not, while taking in insults and attacks ranging from juvenile comments to career change propositions -  thanks for that guys, really cool :thumbsup:

This all leaves me with very bad taste and seriously drops my enthusiasm about this forum. It may be that my English is simply not good enough to explain my position, therefore I will simply excuse myself and never again in future try to help, convey information, collect data, put things in motion, drop hints or in general go way outside my job description to benefit this community and all C4D users.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Guest

Just when you thought MAXON gets it you realise they don't.

HSrdelic, one moment your are saying you're not talking for MAXON then in the next breath you're saying you're here conveying information and dropping hints. Call me confused.

I am going to read and go by what Rick says because I think MAXON US do understand what customers want in terms of dialogue and it isn't hints however capable the person is doing the hinting.

Share this post


Link to post

HSrdelic, one moment your are saying you're not talking for MAXON then in the next breath you're saying you're here conveying information and dropping hints. Call me confused.

I don't see how that can confuse you. Company policy is not preventing me from conveying information to where it needs to be conveyed...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Guest

I don't see how that can confuse you. Company policy is not preventing me from conveying information to where it needs to be conveyed...

 

But you aren't conveying the information we want, hints mean nothing. For the avoidance of doubt, we don't want a roadmap or company secrets we want information like Rick relayed regarding Bodypaint. I would like to know if the object handling performance is actively being worked on and if it is a big long job manage this expectations.

Why does it have to be a battle to get a reasonable level of communication going?

Look at your competitors and see how much more information they share with their customers or your future customers if that helps concentrate the mind. The cynic in me is beginning to think if we scratch too deeply we might not like what we find. That the genius programmers who started C4D have long gone fishing and there's a bunch of second raters left who think the perpetual MSA payments are only for buggy amateur level features, repackaged 3rd party plugins and content browser presets, you know, the stuff that's been served up for the last few releases.

Share this post


Link to post

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...