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Leaving or staying with C4D for what and why?


Fastbee

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Maya and Max needing less 3rd Party plugins than C4D. LOL. 4 of the 5 last Max updates was more or less just buying and implementing Plugins. Every Maya user I know has to use a myriade of scripts to make it flow smoothly.

No requested features? LOL.

Every C4D artist I know demanded render layers for years. Demanded modeling updates and got them in the last three upgrades. Ok we do not us TR since we do not consider MAXON an network software developer and have 3rd party managers for the farm. And we use 3rd Party renderers like every studio.

It is worriying that guys here celebrate maya for its modeling upgrades while they simply catch up with C4D. Same with Houdini modeling: catching up.

Modo? Half the package of C4D.

Of course I would have like to see other stuff being implemented. But this is a pipeline release every smaller or bigger studio will like. I think they should make a discount because of TR but that is another story

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Because BP/UVs will not be updated in R17, I already loaded myself with a license of 3D-Coat V4.5. Is cheaper than Modo and it doesn't crash like Modo.

Maya 2016, is a good update but where AD talks about the new UI simplicity and easier to work with, among other things, we already have those in C4D, since R12 (if I'm not mistaken). The new way Maya 2016 retains and converts component selections, we have that for ages too!
Anyways, I can't wait to put my hands on R17 because Takes is a gamer changer! 

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It is worriying that guys here celebrate maya for its modeling upgrades while they simply catch up with C4D. Same with Houdini modeling: catching up.

C4D has never been renowned for his modelling tools I think and in regards to Maya it's way more than just catch up. I remember not so long ago how bad image Autodesk had even among its users but thanks to an elaborate request features system they slowly succeed to change this state of mind. They deserve all respect for that. Houdini is also interesting, it's getting some hypes recently and even MAXON pushes to learn it, so I will be not surprise if a growing number of users will eventually just bypass C4D in the future as SideFx makes it more user friendly each year.

Edit: In the Maya video Brian posted, they set up for the first time a whole team dedicated to modelling and the results are indeed indisputable  

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It's not in Beta. Parts of it will be in Alpha state at this point in time. Other parts will still be getting coded. MAXON however knows with 95% certainty what will be in R18. The 5% is for minor modifications that may crop up during testing. They won't spill the beans on what's in it in case they pull something or hold it back for R19 because it didn't get finished in time or was too buggy to release. About the best that we can hope for is they'll say something like "Yeah we hear you and yes UV editing is being worked on". No mention of when we can expect those enhancements. If the rewritten core is coming in R18 then it's probably finished now.

My suggestion is you run with Modo and hang on to your money until at some point in the future MAXON finally delivers the goods.

Thank you for staying on top of the alpha / beta thing in these threads. Through no fault of their own most people really have no idea how software development and testing works and so they "extrapolate" from comments they hear in other contexts, to draw new conclusions.

People shouldn't assume anything about R18 or R19. Even beta testers probably don't have a full awareness of how the code branches are set up, if certain things are developed concurrently, etc. Speculating is pointless. The only rule that people need to apply is this: if C4D is always released in September, and you ask for something in May or June (and it's not already in the upcoming release), you're not going to get it. lol

Usually the first few months of development are when things are added, removed, dramatically modified in terms of UI. The last few months of development, the features and the UI for the features are set in stone (largely –  very minor cosmetic changes can be made) and the full focus is on bug fixes and performance optimization for the newly included features, and on testing compatibility with plugins in C4D's case most likely. Any assumptions beyond that by internet forum communities will lead to angst and pain. 

:D

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What I've found is it's hard to be a master of multiple 3D apps. Better to stick to one and master that.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I am sort of a jack of all trades, master of none. And I'd like to be a master of something. I might decide to stick with modo and Maya LT. I want to have my foot in another application other than modo. The Maya LT subscription is only $30 a month so I can play around in it casually, learning it slowly over time without worrying about maximizing my investment.

 

 

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People shouldn't assume anything about R18 or R19. Even beta testers probably don't have a full awareness of how the code branches are set up, if certain things are developed concurrently, etc. Speculating is pointless. The only rule that people need to apply is this: if C4D is always released in September, and you ask for something in May or June (and it's not already in the upcoming release), you're not going to get it. lol

To be fair all things users asked in May or June are just recurrent features they ask for years, so I hope MAXON already began to work on it since a long time otherwise they will be in a big trouble for the next few releases. Something MAXON could do very quickly however is to communicate better.

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To be fair all things users asked in May or June are just recurrent features they ask for years, so I hope MAXON already began to work on it since a long time otherwise they will be in a big trouble for the next few releases. Something MAXON could do very quickly however is to communicate better.

That's absolutely correct. I was making a general statement to apply to all feature requests that are made in the late spring or summer, for this particular app. 

For sure there's reason to be disappointed that some number of those big requests have not shown up in R16 or R17, since first being brought to MAXON's attention a few years ago (albeit not as forcefully as this year). But more generally it makes sense to keep people's expecations in check and educate them on the basic timing of the development cycle so that forums don't fill up with unreasonable hopes (based on the timing).

So let's say next spring someone comes up with the grand idea of adding the X Widget to C4D, capable of tilting the earth's axis and bringing great joy to 3D artists everywhere. Well, that's great. But good idea or not, there's no chance of it being included in R18, unless it was already there when the user made the request (by happenstance). 

; )

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I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I am sort of a jack of all trades, master of none. And I'd like to be a master of something. I might decide to stick with modo and Maya LT. I want to have my foot in another application other than modo. The Maya LT subscription is only $30 a month so I can play around in it casually, learning it slowly over time without worrying about maximizing my investment.

 

 

Sound like a sensible approach to me. Plus you'll get access to Autodesk Stingray for that same 30 bucks each month. 

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I have been using c4d since the v5 demo but actually made it my main 3d app until R9.6, and it's until this year that I have a steady job doing 3d. 
Now, I don't think I will jump ship just like that, I am way too  used to c4d right now, and my job requires speed. but I will start learning modo, and let's see what happens. But I can tell that unless R18 is the bees knees I can see myself and many others leaving.  

 

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I feel this post from Kai Pedersen is very clarifying. (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=8073979&postcount=34)

Basically, if the clients (from studios and such, that meet MAXON on a regular basis) are happy with what they are getting, there's not much to do. Forum is a minority. I'm sure my opinion is not that important, even more since I only own a student version.
Being honest though, I really like Cinema 4D. I want it to shine, even more because Autodesk is a greedy corporation that killed Softimage, which I was learning before I bought my C4D student license. :)
 

3D started as a hobby for me, that I hope someday to turn into work. I was really impressed by the type of work done by Tiny Inventions and the trio Job, Joris and Marieke. This is the type of stuff I want to do (plus modeling crazy characters). Tiny Inventions already switched to Maya for animation, who knows if the trio won't follow? While I respect and stay in awe with the motion graphics I've seen done in Cinema 4D and while I'll continue to watch the Siggraph, Nab and Ibc presentations with interest, I'm not a motion graphics guy. I wish I were, but I'm terrible! :D
Anyway ... I'll continue to post here because I like the community. But I just won't be using Cinema 4D (for now). Maybe in the future I'll be back.

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I feel this post from Kai Pedersen is very clarifying. (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=8073979&postcount=34)

Basically, if the clients (from studios and such, that meet MAXON on a regular basis) are happy with what they are getting, there's not much to do. Forum is a minority. I'm sure my opinion is not that important, even more since I only own a student version

I'm pretty sure the number of hobbyists and freelancers who use C4D are far much bigger than the few studios MAXON met, so I don't think their voice are so much more important than others. Also one thing has to be clear, from what I read it's not much about the R17 features, that are quite handy for nearly everybody, than the pace MAXON takes to develop them since a few releases as they were often long overdue, this release would have been much better received at the time of R15. I understand that studios are happy with this one after the R15 and R16 (Maybe even R14 as a lot didn't find the need for the sculpting tools) but is it enough after 3 or 4 years of development? I mean regarding to the competition you could nearly make one release with the last three C4D ones, at least in term of useful features. Like many others, I am convinced that MAXON put some of their ressources elsewhere to something much bigger but they must at least communicate better really quickly.

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I'm pretty sure the number of hobbyists and freelancers who use C4D are far much bigger than the few studios MAXON met, so I don't think their voice are so much more important than others. ...

I agree Edouard. I don't see where the math comes from when Kai says "miniscule fraction". This is a niche market, as far as know. This isn't like Photoshop where there are millions and millions of registered users all across the world. The number of studios who do this kind of work for television and cinema is actually a miniscule fraction of the larger "graphic design / digital arts" community. MAXON then visits some modest fraction of those studios, right? I would bet in any given year MAXON visits and speaks directly with maybe 50-60 studio artists who use Cinema for CG, tops? I don't know. . . maybe I'm off my rocker but I'd be surprised if they had time to do more than that, given a 12 month dev cycle, and the fact that they're a pretty small company. 

Based on the number of people who frequent (inlcluding lurk in) forums each year, I'd wager the absolute numbers are in the forum dwellers' favor. We probably are a larger percentage of the overall user community than the studio people who get MAXON visits / focus groups.

THAT BEING SAID, I do understand what Kai is saying about the importance MAXON assigns to those studios / artists who they every year. Those people probably DO get preferential treatment in terms of feature requests, and it's probably also true those people are rarely in forums (most likely because they're working 60 hours a week and sleeping / eating / doing normal people things the rest of the time before the next 60 hour week). I don't have a problem with MAXON paying close attention to those people because those people can showcase MAXON's product in ways none of us can (freelancers or whoever). . . generally. There are always exceptions / outstanding freelancers who do big ticket work.

The important thing is that MAXON pays attention to freelancers (that means forums) going forward, and integrates their feedback whenever possible. The reason forums exist is because freelancers don't have the support structure around them to collaborate and answer questions on a daily basis. If you're working in a studio of 15 CG artists, you would have zero need to come to this or any other forum – you just ask your coworker right then. So the argument "many artists don't visit forums (therefore forums feedback is less important)" is misguided and misleading. Studio artists don't visit forums because they have a "live forum" sitting all around them, at all times. I would think that should be obvious to the studio types making those kinds of observations.

 

 

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