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jwiede

C4D future info & development

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Aloha Kent :)

What's cooking down under? Thanks for the post from dev perspective.

 

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Well, I like the blogpost about the rewrite of the core. It seems to me that this is exactly the way it has to be done. Bring in the new core as the new foundation and then switch step by step the functions to this new core. Better it takes some time rather than getting unstable.

 

Cinema 4D is and will be the software of my choice (after 20 years of 3dsmax). What I need is a swiss army knife for all my jobs, not a specialist for one or two things. Is everything optimal in C4D? No, but then again, where it is?

 

Big thanks goes to HSrdelic, kbar and RBarret for the insights. Very interesting to read.

 

A short little tip for cutman: If C4D does not meet your requirements in so many points, go ahead and buy Houdini. You already know everything about Houdini, because you have read the feature list on their website, right? And I have heard, they have the greenest grass of all! Mehhhhh 

 

 

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Guest pgoski
21 hours ago, rmercier said:

It's very weird to see how people are so quick to blame the "community" as a whole.

Most of us were very grateful for the blog post, the way I see it the only concerns left are:
- The blog post is still not saying that much. Does "massive data-parallelism" include hardware acceleration? Will the SDK be deprecated again before core is complete? Don't get me wrong the blog post is really great but, personally, HSrdelic's and RBarrett's post on this thread is the kind of stuff I want to read:

- Most members think several years before complete transition is too long (the whole stability vs speed of improvement tread-off). I personally prefer the After Effects approach were they asked the users on the official blog what they though of spending a whole year on increasing speed and nothing else, got good feedback, so they did and overhauled the entire architecture. Now we have a broken preview in CC2015 but you can still use CC2014 if you need stability over speed for certain projects. I know a lot of people hate it but even if I curse a lot when using CC2015 I like the fact that I know what happened behind the scenes, that I was prepared for it and that the choice is left to me.

Am I missing anything?

Also it's important to note that a lot of C4D users asked and waited for this specific kind of statement for a very long time. And some of us are still pissed off about the waiting. And it's understandable, there is a lot at stake for freelancers and small companies in the choice of software licenses.

And I don't think it's fair to compare C4D and Houdini: You wouldn't want to do a quick motion graphics gig on Houdini the same way you wouldn't want to do a complex fluid simulation with Thinking Particles. Different tools for different jobs.

At the time of the posting, it was far from most of the people here that saw this as a positive...and because of how small the forums are, some voices ring louder. I have been a member of cgtalk since 2001 and read daily, and here a little less often, and generally things can slide into app bashing pretty fast...and at the time I posted that, that is where things were heading in this thread. So yeah, I may have been a little hasty, and usually I am much better at deleting posts rather than posting posts.

Since then, many more reasonable comments and questions have been asked...but there is always that initial backlash on a forum, before things actually settle into something constructive.

But that is just my opinion

Also, I commend ADOBE for what they did. It was ballsy.

I wish MAXON had stated this at R16, as it could have helped smooth things out...but now you know that the perceived "light" features is because MAXON was working on something bigger, when people on forums were demanding a focus on architecture, rather than new features, it was actually already happening.

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Well, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I really like MAXON as it treated me differently as a customer (student version buyer, since I'm an old fart). So MAXON, in the words of the great Shia LaBeouf: " JUST DO IT!".

 

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4 hours ago, kbar said:

Thought I would chime in here since I see my name popping up.

So to get things into perspective a bit, only 3 developers left in the past 7 years. Out of the past 25 years maybe a total of 5 developers moved on. The core team who first brought C4D into existence are still there. And they are some of the most talented developers I have ever had the privilege of working with. If you have been checking the job postings on MAXON.net  you would have seen many developer jobs advertised and filled. Including a brand new office in Canada, picking up a lot of other extremely talented devs who other companies foolishly made redundant (their loss Maxons gain).

I am really happy to see that MAXON has announced the new core being developed. And the fact that it has been in C4D since R16 and no one noticed (i.e. its stable and not crashing all the time) is a testament to their dev and planning skills. The new threading has been talked about and this has already made it into various parts of C4D already. Previous announcements were made regarding speed ups for rendering, deformers and many other parts. You may not have noticed a massive speed boost since C4D is huge and you can do so much. But you might have noticed certain things feel smoother to use.  Maybe that deformer now updates in 1 second instead of 2.  Multiply that through your scenes and animations and you start to see a difference.  As each release comes out you will start to see more parts working faster and smoother.

The core is the foundation on what the entire application is built upon. This is not something simple that can be thrown together over 1 year. This takes very careful planning and even more careful integration and testing. And as said, its in there! From now on you will start to see more new and exciting features and speed improvements. 

These guys and gals are doing an extremely impressive job here. This is not a new app. You are getting (or will get ) all the benefits of the new core without interrupting your workflow. You won't have to change to use a different app, C5D? Instead the devs have been swapping out the old for the new right under your nose, and have been doing so for the past 3 years without anyone noticing. And each following release is only going to get better. 

MAXON has made the announcement but people will still want more (more blog posts, faster this, feature X). But I think they are doing a great job. They are posting updates to the blog, they are working on "faster this", which threading is the backbone for, and this will  lead onto features XYZ. They have a bigger dev team now, lots of great people working in QA, Support (and SDK Support) and Product Management. 

I myself am now on the MSA train and am happily going to pay to get R18. Get excited people. This is good news!

Kent,

Thank you!  You put things in great perspective and you also touched upon my main concern with MAXON and that is the ability to compete.  Believe it or not, that is at the core of my concerns.  It is not the speed with which they improve the program but rather how they will stay competitive.  Honestly, C4D has more capability now than I have skill so there is always more for a hobbyist like me to grow into even if they stopped development with R17.

Having lived through the disaster that was trueSpace, my deepest fear is that at some point in the future MAXON folds up shop because they could not keep up with other companies.   Then all that investment, all 10 years of upgrades, tutorials, plugins, etc. get lost when I finally have to get a new PC with an OS that no longer supports the last version C4D produced.  I am not only heavily invested in C4D but its eco-system partners as well (GSG, Pixel Lab, C4D Depot, Jawset, Insydium, cmiVFX..the list goes on).  So all that goes away eventually if MAXON goes under.  That's a lot of time and money lost and I want to be using C4D until I am too old and blind to hold the mouse or see the monitor (though by then it will all VR and haptic interfaces anyway).

So things you touched on, like retention of key developers, ability to recruit new talent, quality control (where is Srek anyway?) and what they have accomplished so far with the new core, really level sets my expectations correctly!  This is what I want to hear about more so than when will Bodypaint get an update.

So without giving away the store, can we get more of an explanation as to how "highly-efficient threading system for massive data-parallelism and new optimized data structures" will keep C4D competitive?

Thanks,

Dave

P.S. BTW: When will Bodypaint get an update?  ;-)

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Cutman said:

Poor Patrick seems to have taken my comment a little too personally. I hope his fawning Twitter followers were able to massage his bent ego back into shape?

He says 'community' what he meant to say was 'customers'. I am a customer and I have paid many thousands of pounds of my money for the right to air my opinion. Tuff sh** if you don't like it Patrick.

As a fellow "customer" and one who sees himself as part of the c4d "community"...I must ask: Didn't you already say you were leaving? What's the problem... you can't find the door? 

 

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Actually, the truth is that some developers that used to work on 3DSMax, Softimage, Maya, Motion builder, Game authoring tools etc. are now in MAXON. This is public knowledge so it is surprising to see that nobody posted that?

Now this is the sort of stuff MAXON  could be posting in their blog about. Introduce the new developers to the community.

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1 hour ago, 3DKiwi said:

Now this is the sort of stuff MAXON  could be posting in their blog about. Introduce the new developers to the community.

Specially if you got Softimage devs. Theses guys are pretty visionary I believe. :) 

 

Max also. Just imagine having a modifier stack of sorts. We almost have this, but it could be even better. 

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Guys, lets try to stay civil as possible. Thank you!

 

 

Igor

8 hours ago, Mauricio said:

Well, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I really like MAXON as it treated me differently as a customer (student version buyer, since I'm an old fart). So MAXON, in the words of the great Shia LaBeouf: " JUST DO IT!".

 

68d4bd17c4c3a0a9d5e9d6c68ffd8642.thumb.j

I had a good laugh! :lol: JUST DO I MAXON! 


| MAXON Quality Assurance Specialist | 3D Asset Creator | C4D Cafe Manager |

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Many MAXON devs are members here and read the forum on regular basis, but they don't post much and prefer to keep low profile. Hope some of them will post too in order to clarify things even more, to an extent that they can :)

 

@Nigel

You think that would be interesting to community? That info is already public knowledge.

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