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jwiede

C4D future info & development

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4 hours ago, zeden said:

This place is getting ridicilous. After everbody here cried prior to its release how sh*** R17 is without having a single clue about it (strangely the R17 features have proved to be of great falue to pro users) now the whining about the blog starts. It was so obvious.

 

Everybody who works in team projects will welcome the increasing diversity in license models. How can you not?

 

I cannot image the shitstorm if they go more into detail of feature develpoment. Walls of whining threads ahead of us "...because I want feature X sooooo bad. How dare they implementing feature Y !!!!! They are so out of touch!!!!"

 

Maybe humbug threads like this are out of touch

 

 

It certainly should have been obvious to whoever put those blogs online that people would respond like this. The whole launching of a blog was supposed to be a direct response to the many customers crying out for some more personal, more interesting, less corporate information and communication by MAXON. So it's kinda stupid to then open it with two completely corporate and impersonal, low-on-information posts from the top two guys in the company. It's just a missed opportunity. Seriously, customer communication is not rocket science. I'm perfectly fine if they want to communicate like this in press releases or investor meetings. That was not what the blog is supposed to be.

 

This has nothing to do with whether or not diversity in license models is welcome for anyone. I'm sure it is!

But don't post a blog post about it with the title "opportunities and challenges" if you're not actually gonna talk about any opportunities and challenges. If the CEO and CFO of a company simply are unable to communicate like actual human beings with the part of the user base that is a not a large studio, or another corporate investor, then they should hire someone who can. There are people who do this for a living. It's called marketing and communication and again it's not rocket science.

 

And I cannot imagine there would be any shitstorm if they would have a blog-post about development of improvements to Bodypaint, or viewport speed.

If they post one about a new "bookshelf generator" (handy as it might be in certain situations) though... yes I can predict a shitstorm and rightfully so.

 

And I really like Takes and Tokens :)

And to be fair, I'm sure we will see some more informative posts in the future. It's just not off to a very good start.

 

Sorry but I don't see anything wrong with complaining about obvious ineptitude by people who should know better by now :P

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Alright, my original post was a little inflammatory, sorry if it pissed anyone off (not even sure anyone saw it, to be honest), but what can I say, this thread shocked me.  We specifically asked MAXON to communicate with their customers, and two posts into their blog, of which the first is just a "hi!" post and doesn't really count; so essentially on the very first post of any consequence, where they start doing exactly what we asked them to do, people start ragging on them?  And simply because it wasn't exactly the bit of information that you personally may have been salivating to hear?  That's the impression I got from some.  

 

If anyone's expecting MAXON to just go around announcing features all willy-nilly on a public blog, where their competition can see and adjust for it, then you're going to be disappointed.   At best we might get some vague indication of directionality, maybe by hinting at a new developer's particular specialty or whatnot, but I'd be shocked if they got any more specific; which, ironically, this last post was quite specific.

 

But enough about me griping about other people griping, I'm going to leave this post on a positive note:

 

Guys!  Our perpetual licenses are safe!  And for those who want subscriptions you're gonna have that option!  And worldwide licensing is being introduced! And all direct from a managing partner and co-founder of MAXON! Who knows, worldwide licensing could lead to consistent worldwide pricing so that non-US countries don't get shafted on price anymore!

 

This. Is. Good. News!

 

So far you can't say the blog has been anything but a success.  Of the two posts so far, they've both done exactly what they are supposed to do, with relatively little time between them.  The first one introduced the blog, success.  The second post delivers on what the first post promised, bringing with it critically important news about our licenses.  Again, success.  There isn't anything to indicate that future posts will be any different.  Personally I'm hoping the next one drops a vague mention of the "core" development team... might indicate that the core re-writes (for object handling and whatnot) are further along than we think!

 

-kvb

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What i think is happening is that you need to look more at who the people are and what they DO in the company before

getting worked up in this blog, i mean the CEO isnt going to say "yeah were going to have realtime gpu rendering next version - look out for it guys!" he is mainly responsible for the company direction as a whole and delegates all the other stuff downwards.

so i expect there to be quite a few more people start to post on the blog and talk about things that are relevant to what they do/are working on.

Dont get me wrong,if the blog reads the same in 6 months then MAXON deserve all the criticism they get,but im just hopeful that the blog was started at a bit of a daft time,and now we are in a new year things will start to progress 

 

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What i think is happening is that you need to look more at who the people are and what they DO in the company before

getting worked up in this blog, i mean the CEO isnt going to say "yeah were going to have realtime gpu rendering next version - look out for it guys!" he is mainly responsible for the company direction as a whole and delegates all the other stuff downwards.

so i expect there to be quite a few more people start to post on the blog and talk about things that are relevant to what they do/are working on.

Dont get me wrong,if the blog reads the same in 6 months then MAXON deserve all the criticism they get,but im just hopeful that the blog was started at a bit of a daft time,and now we are in a new year things will start to progress 

 

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11 hours ago, kvb said:

Alright, my original post was a little inflammatory, sorry if it pissed anyone off (not even sure anyone saw it, to be honest), but what can I say, this thread shocked me.  We specifically asked MAXON to communicate with their customers, and two posts into their blog, of which the first is just a "hi!" post and doesn't really count; so essentially on the very first post of any consequence, where they start doing exactly what we asked them to do, people start ragging on them?  And simply because it wasn't exactly the bit of information that you personally may have been salivating to hear?  That's the impression I got from some.  

 

If anyone's expecting MAXON to just go around announcing features all willy-nilly on a public blog, where their competition can see and adjust for it, then you're going to be disappointed.   At best we might get some vague indication of directionality, maybe by hinting at a new developer's particular specialty or whatnot, but I'd be shocked if they got any more specific; which, ironically, this last post was quite specific.

You appear to be the ideal MAXON customer that easily pleased by mediocrity forgive the rest of us who have higher expectations.

 

What you seem to be expecting from the blog is nothing more than already exists i.e. no communication of any value. What the rest of us want is solid information that gives us confidence that all of those feedback remarks that were submitted are being addressed. We expect more than a tweet's worth of information wrapped up in flannel.

 

Go and look on YouTube at the amount of Technology Preview and Sneak Peek information Autodesk releases regarding research and development that shows their customers they're on the case and moving forward. MAXON can only be bothered to half heartedly start a blog post and you think we should rejoice in that?

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  • 1 hour ago, caliburn said:

    Dont get me wrong,if the blog reads the same in 6 months then MAXON deserve all the criticism they get,but im just hopeful that the blog was started at a bit of a daft time,and now we are in a new year things will start to progress 

     

    The biggest problem I have is with the time passed since these issues "went critical", versus the actual level of response we've received from MAXON.   Months came and went while we were told the blog was "being planned", more since the first post, and there's still not been a single posting which in any way practically addresses the issues we were told motivated the blog in the first place.

     

    We can always give them more time, sure, but remember that the reason for the requested communication is to try and resolve customer issues regarding the contents of recent versions.  Six months from now, R18 will be all be frozen, and the window for any discussions to impact the release will be long closed.  The end goal here isn't just MAXON communicating with customers, its about MAXON establishing open channels of communication with customers to try and resolve growing customer dissatisfaction with Cinema4D's value, progress and direction.  

     

    Instead, the postings come across as exactly the kind of "communication" customers have always received from MAXON.  Viewed as such, the content of the initial blog postings are quite disappointing to many customers, because they do not make any visible progress towards the goals customers were told the blog would help address.  

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    5 hours ago, jwiede said:

     

    ...

     Six months from now, R18 will be all be frozen, and the window for any discussions to impact the release will be long closed.

    ...

     

    That's not correct. I remember reading here at the Cafe, that at the time R17 was released, R18 was well under way with the planning, and there was not much possibility to address changes.

     

    If you take that sentence out of your post, I can take it at face value.

     

    It was about September that the talk of a "more open MAXON" was being addressed, or trying to be addressed by the american MAXON team. How long ago? Nearly 5 months. I believe the question they must be trying to answer at HQ is "What can we (partially) disclose, which won't hurt us?"

     

    If nothing is disclosed (or partially disclosed) that might mean two things: there is a so breakthrough technology being implemented that they don't want to share it with the competition, or what they have to share would dishearten their customers. 

     

    The third possibility is creating a blog and keep doing what they were doing, in the hope that things calm down. This last option can shoot back worst than any of the other two, as it will take credibility from their statements.

     

    I'm not questioning here the work or attitude put by some MAXON co-workers on the plate, who are giving their best to keep MAXON's customers happy, and doing a good work at it. I'm talking about MAXON as a company. 5 months and 2 posts in an blog (never mind the contents), which has been expected by customers to show a "more open MAXON" is, IMHO, a little bit scarce. 

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    4 hours ago, Cutman said:

    You appear to be the ideal MAXON customer that easily pleased by mediocrity forgive the rest of us who have higher expectations.

     

    What you seem to be expecting from the blog is nothing more than already exists i.e. no communication of any value. What the rest of us want is solid information that gives us confidence that all of those feedback remarks that were submitted are being addressed. We expect more than a tweet's worth of information wrapped up in flannel.

     

    Go and look on YouTube at the amount of Technology Preview and Sneak Peek information Autodesk releases regarding research and development that shows their customers they're on the case and moving forward. MAXON can only be bothered to half heartedly start a blog post and you think we should rejoice in that?

    I'm not saying you should rejoice, just don't sh** all over it when it's only really one post old.  I'm sorry you don't see any value in knowing that perpetual licenses are safe.  I personally find that to be extremely valuable... like nearly $4,000 worth of value, actually.  

     

    And no, I'm not expecting the blog to be more of what already existed, because what we had before was nothing.  Now we have something.  It's only nothing when you mix in your grossly premature opinion, which doesn't change the fact that it's still something (a blog is something, yes?) and not nothing.

     

    This isn't a matter of me having low expectations, this is about some having too high an expectation (yourself included).  MAXON is not going to share their entire roadmap publicly, definately not this early in the development cycle, just like you're not going to share your credit card number, expiration date and 3-digit security code with me.

     

    You can't compare MAXON to Autodesk.  They have a bazillion products, they are the de facto industry standard in just about every market they've penetrated, they have resources that make MAXON's look paltry by comparison.  They can afford to dedicate development resources and time into generating tech previews and whatnot.  MAXON, not so much.  Besides, at what point did MAXON promise to do a complete 180 and start sharing everything they're working on?  No need to answer, that was rhetorical, because they didn't.  They promised to communicate with us more, and that's exactly what they've done thus far.  You can sh** on them if/when they don't follow through (I know I will!), but that time certainly isn't now.

     

    What I ask is quite reasonable:  Wait for there to be sufficient data before you render any kind of judgement.  Right now they have one real post that, despite your opinion, offers critically important information.  Can any legitimate c4d user honestly say that they don't care about the future of their very expensive perpetual license?  Even someone who's a gung-ho subscription fanboy is going to want their perpetual license to still be worth something, which won't be the case if perpetual licenses (and their upgrade paths) go bye-bye.

     

    -kvb

     

     

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    R18 will be feature frozen right now apart from maybe a few minor tweaks. Beta testers will be starting to get their hands on the new R18 stuff as it rolls out over the next month or so. It then gets 3-4 months Beta testing and bug fixing before release date.

     

    95% of what's coming in R19 will be all planned out and some coding will be being done for it right now.

     

    Just to show how bad MAXON's communication is and how out of touch management is, not once in all the years I was Beta testing did the CEO and CFO post anything in their Beta testing forum. Quite a contrast from the brief stint of Beta testing I did for Luxology a few years ago where management were very active and quite willing to explain why this or that couldn't be implemented right now or say "we're working on it but it won't come until X version".

     

    I thought the MAXON blog if you can call it a blog was too little and too late. Management needs to spend some time looking at what their competitors are doing.

     

    Fun times ahead if R18 is another weak upgrade.

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    honestly im really hoping this secrecy is leading up to something big. Because MAXON's draw has never been about being ahead of the competition in features... i mean honestly if they disclosed all of R16 and R17 and probably R15's feautures years in advance, what could possibly be done with that information by the competition? no one is going to switch to maya from cinema, because it also gets a camera tracker... takes and tokens have existed in a most apps forever. even c4d had a plugin for it. 

     

    i don't think anyone picks c4d for grounbreaking new features, we pick it because its easy to use, because the interface makes sense. because its very procedural. All this stuff is well known to the competition... I just don't get why all the secrecy... 

     

    Like imagine if MAXON comes out and shows us a demo of their new GPU enchanced/mutlithreaded viewport ( assuming/hoping they are working on one). What modo or autodesk or houdini are suddenly gonna go: "!@#$, we need to do that before R18 is released". and then through some crazy all nighters they pull it off. c4d users aren't gonna switch... mainly because modo and maya already have that...

     

    just.. meh... 

     

     

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