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C4D future info & development


jwiede

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7 minutes ago, Cutman said:

but you are not privy to what is happening at Autodesk or SideFX and their current technology is streets ahead in many areas

You couldn't be more wrong here. I do have a personal insight in current (and future) technological state of both.

 

10 minutes ago, Cutman said:

I simply do not believe MAXON has the developers that will bring Houdini level features to the table

Really?  Hm, why would you think that? I am just curious.?

 

btw I drive VW too. Emission? All politics to pressure big German car manufacturer since their competition can't really compete with VW anymore.

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16 minutes ago, Cutman said:
 

As far as I'm concerned if the new core has been around since R16 none of us were aware because none of us received any performance increase whatsoever.

Hi Cutman,

You're certainly welcome to your opinion and your choice. I just want to clarify a couple of things because your comments might lead to others' misunderstanding.

As the blog says, Cinema 4D has run on top of the new core since R16. In order to see performance increases from the new core, existing functionality has to be wired in, bypassing the earlier Cinema 4D architecture. This has actually happened in a number of places - I don't have a list handy, but I know that we saw speedups in some render calculations like caustics early on because they were rewired to the new core. Why caustics? It was a relatively disconnected area where the concept could be tested easily without affecting other things. A more recent example is the relative pathing and token functionality in R17, which uses improved filename handling from the new core.

It's this tactic that allows MAXON to continue to deliver meaningful features as we transition Cinema 4D fully to the new core. As the blog says it'll be several releases before that transition is complete, and the main performance increases will of course come towards the end with object handling. But each release in the meantime (just as the past few) will include new features as well as continue the transition. Cinema 4D will not sit idle during this transition, but will continue to improve in both feature set and performance with each release.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, HSrdelic said:

Folks, for you that are maybe missing the link to the blog or matter being discussed.

http://www.MAXON.net/en/news/MAXON-blog/blog-singleview/article/foundations-for-the-future.html

Very interesting....and let me say thank you for sharing some information with us.  

The only hint of new features (and I must admit, you guys are masters at saying a great deal, but telling us nothing ---- and I mean that in a good way) is this: 

Quote

A rich foundation of groundbreaking fundamental technologies have been created, including a highly-efficient threading system for massive data-parallelism and new optimized data structures, to name just a few.

 

While we can get excited over the future, my joy was short lived at this statement (emphasis added): 

Quote

Transitioning Cinema 4D fully to the new core will still take several more releases. Lots of existing code will need to be tweaked and tested, both internally and by our third-party development partners.

Ouch!  More waiting.  I love the program...honestly, I really do.  But seriously, when I retire I wonder if I will still be able to afford this hobby.  Please get this done before I retire!!!

Overall, I feel like you are announcing that you developed a new high-energy fuel.  Put that fuel in the right sports car and you can travel faster than the speed of light...but right now all we are driving is a Prius which you are trying to convert to sports car one tire at a time.  

Dave

P.S. HSredelic --- while we are are waiting for C4D to fully reveal itself in all its glory, can you do two things?

  1. Change my handle back from "DPangel" back to "3D-Pangel".
  2. Explain you Avatar.  What is that thing?  It looks like a hermaphrodite experiencing a huge case of tumescence that is sporting a loose fitting contraceptive.  Sorry...I can't think of a more tactful way to put it....but that silhouette makes no sense.
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7 hours ago, Cutman said:

"Transitioning Cinema 4D fully to the new core will still take several more releases."

I admire the candour but that's the last straw, I'm out.

In several years time I'm gong to be competent in Houdini and the core rewrite won't be remotely relevant.

See you later then!

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59 minutes ago, DPangel said:

Explain you Avatar.  What is that thing?  It looks like a hermaphrodite experiencing a huge case of tumescence that is sporting a loose fitting contraceptive.  Sorry...I can't think of a more tactful way to put it....but that silhouette makes no sense.

Personally, I thought it was more a tumescent hermaphrodite wearing a bunny hand puppet instead of a condom.  Tomato, tomato.  An explanation would be nice, though, agreed.
:geek:

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11 hours ago, HSrdelic said:

One thing that I can guarantee you is that given all my experience, knowledge and insight,  I certainly won't look into Maya, Houdini, Modo or anything else for that matter ;)

 

You seem so confident with that statement that I tend to believe you so I'm looking forward the next few releases hoping it won't be too long ::):

Cheers

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So MAXON has finally fessed up that they're working on a new core. Up until I stopped being a Beta tester towards the end of the R17 cycle they hadn't even told Beta testers this, that's how close they keep their cards to their chest. I think however most of the Beta testers had figured out something was being worked on and had been worked on for a number of years judging by the absence of the long time / senior developers.

Okay, so you poor bastards still using C4D have to wait several more release cycles to really get the benefit of the new core. Looks like I was right to jump ship when I did. I can't wait around forever for MAXON to get their act together and make C4D perform as it should.

So my prediction for R18 is it will be another yawn release like R17 was. No doubt there will be one stand out new feature or enhanced feature that will be really well done but stuff like UV editing or a Material node system will still be lacking. And from MAXON's point of view, why rush things? They will have hooked a lot of people into staying with C4D for the next few releases and can sell them a MSA every year and keep the money coming in.

Fun times ahead.

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5 hours ago, DPangel said:
  • Change my handle back from "DPangel" back to "3D-Pangel".
  • Explain you Avatar.  What is that thing?  It looks like a hermaphrodite experiencing a huge case of tumescence that is sporting a loose fitting contraceptive.  Sorry...I can't think of a more tactful way to put it....but that silhouette makes no sense.

1. There is a bug in Forum software which prevents us from renaming members and enter number values. This should be fixed in following update.

2- Lol, that is actually from a cartoon I loved to watch as a kid

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Linea_%28TV_series%29

 

Folks, will post later after work something that can clarify some conclusions which are drawn here, which are a bit off :)

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7 hours ago, DPangel said:

Explain you Avatar.  What is that thing?  It looks like a hermaphrodite experiencing a huge case of tumescence that is sporting a loose fitting contraceptive.  Sorry...I can't think of a more tactful way to put it....but that silhouette makes no sense.

/EDIT/ oops, already answered, didn't read to the end od the thread, sorry...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Linea_(TV_series)

 

cheers

celke

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3 hours ago, 3DKiwi said:

 

Okay, so you poor bastards still using C4D have to wait several more release cycles to really get the benefit of the new core. Looks like I was right to jump ship when I did. I can't wait around forever for MAXON to get their act together and make C4D perform as it should.

 

The word "several" is the operative word. Several means more than two and upwards so we're expected to hang around getting creamed by the MSA for several more iterations of mediocrity. Several could mean three, four or five more years before the object handling is fixed as Rick confirmed it's going to be the last thing implemented.

I think MAXON seriously underestimate how much of an impediment the object handling is and I predict not fun times ahead but rather difficult times ahead as they are squeezed from the bottom from LW, MODO and Blender while the Autodesk hegemony and SideFX take customers who cannot be arsed to wait any longer for progress. Goodwill only lasts so long and I've been waiting for improvements to object handling from R13 so 4 years of waiting and paying through the nose for repackaged plugins and features no one requested has run its course. On your bike MAXON if you think we're prepared to keep being fisted for a vague promise, a promise of second coming performance in 3, 4 or 5 years time counts for nothing today.

@Hsrdelic

You asked my why I think MAXON cannot compete with SideFX, I think it's so obvious that it doesn't need much of an answer other than to point you towards the the release notes of Houdini for the last several years and contrast that with what MAXON has dished out. TP/Xpresso is a joke, so too is Pyroclusterf**k, cloth is terrible, even Mograph which brought me to C4D is dated and has had no substantial features added for years. So what happens when the new core of C4D is shipped with all these old technologies slapped on top of it? It could be 10 years before MAXON gets round to fixing the whole of C4D. I'm afraid these timescales at best are far too long especially as there are viable alternatives to move to right now who won't be standing still in the next 'several' years either.

I'm gutted with the news and I'm gutted that I wasted so much time and money in backing the wrong horse all these years. Good luck for the future though.

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13 hours ago, HSrdelic said:

One thing that I can guarantee you is that given all my experience, knowledge and insight,  I certainly won't look into Maya, Houdini, Modo or anything else for that matter ;)

 

That's a very bold statement. Even more when the blog says it'll take at least 2-3 versions until Cinema 4D is all in the new tech.

 

Now ... lately I've been just a lurker around here. I'm actually not studying C4D anymore, but I'm a technology and software lover, so I'm always reading about it. :)

So, in face of that, it's hard to accept your claims as realistic. You are saying that Cinema 4D will give users so much power that it won't need Maya, Houdini or Modo (your quote). Houdini can make a 1 Billion Particle today. Can Cinema? Softimage had a 3 Trillion Scene, done by Whiskytree for the movie Elysium (it's been three years already).

Quote

The Arnold development allowed Whiskytree to move from 1.6 billion triangle scenes to 3 trillion triangle scenes. It also meant the studio's previous approach of breaking a shot up into sections - matte painting, geo, projections, et cetera - became almost unnecessary. "We could think about the shot construction in a different way," says Levi, "and we would divide it up based on our resources. We gave everyone creative freedom to do whatever they wanted."

(source: https://www.fxguide.com/featured/elysium-a-practical-miniature-and-digital-fx-odyssey/)

 

I don't work with VFX, but I have several friends than do. None of them ever talked or mentioned Cinema 4D as a viable alternative to what they do. Of course that may change and to be honest, I hope that it does. But do you see how such a statement is bold beyond comprehension?

The software you mention (Modo aside), are production proven on the most demanding VFX pipelines. Even Max is more proven in that than Cinema. Broadcast and Motion Graphics isn't Games or VFX. Even with all the tech, it'll take SOME time before Cinema has that.

3ds Max can do some crazy absurd FX with it's plugins, but it still loss the fight with Houdini. Why? Linux. So if Cinema won't have a Linux version, you'll never see Cinema used heavily on todays VFX pipelines.

 

Anyway ... I just wanted to throw another view at the matter, since your quote seemed like Maya, Houdini and Modo would be toys after this new Cinema tech. Well, I really hope too, but I find it hard to believe.

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