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Rectro

Joint Driven morphs help please?

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  • Hi.

    The aim is to set up correctional morphs for extreme poses to be driven by the rotation of joints, some call it Joint controlled morphs.

    Been spending hours try all sorts and can not get this to work.  I have a character, made a morph for a pose in place to correct the shoulders, post deformer ticked.

    I set a driver tag on the arm joint, and set the target to the morph to be driven.  No matter what I do from here I get popping, anc cant seem to set the range of the rotation to drive the morph without issues.  I then tried in espresso which I know nothing about, and tried using the range mapper driving the x rotation of a joint to the strength of a morph, cannot for the life of me work out the range mapper, no results here either.

     

    Can someone please help me out with a video or explaining, maybe a file example?

     

    Thanks Dan.

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    Have you seen this video? This for face rigs so I don't know how well it would work trying to use this method to move a body, but I think it is essentially what you're trying to do.

     

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  • Thanks Alec, sorry for no replay I didnt get a email notification?  Unfortunately this didn't cover what I wanted to do.  Iv seen this topic come up over and over again, yet iv not found one single video showing how to successfully do it?  Iv nearly  got there using drivers, but I get odd results.

     

    Thanks, Dan

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    Okay I reread your initial post again and I think I understand what you're after a little bit better. Basically you want to get a greater range of motion by using the pose morph to fix the oddities that occur at your most extremes. I was thinking that you just wanted to create joint presets with the posemorph.

    I don't know what kind of data pose morph uses when you look at it in expresso, but I do think expresso will be your best bet to get the posemorph to react when certain joints go past certain rotations.

    You could also look into the muscle objects. I don't really have any experience with them, but I think what you're trying to do is exactly what they're for. they give you some control over how the geometry flexes and contracts on top of the joints.

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  • Joint Control morphs are set up via expresso unfortunately I don't know how,  and whole I see so many say it's easy,  not one video has been made on it. 

     

    Thanks,  Daniel 

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    I think I can help with this , but can you give more details or a simple scene file 

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  • That would be fantastic.  Iv kind of got a working method, but had to do so much searching about this because the problem wasn't just the joint controlled morphs as in getting them to work together, but the sculpting tools within C4D don't work to even create the morph for Pose in space morph corrections.  Il make a quick video to show you what I got, maybe you can help add, or improve on this.

     

    Thanks, Dan

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    "morph corrections" do you mean normal pose morph tag , which you need to be applied when joint X have rotation Y ?

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  • I was going to prepare a mesh to rig quickly, but everything has gone wrong and taken up all my time.  First issue was my mesh was facing the wrong way around so I rotated it 180 degrees and free mesh.  I rigged it, and symmetry weighting did not work despite the mesh being 100% symmetrical?  Next issue was my shoulder joint was missing from the weight list, just vanished so I had to delete the arm rig and start again.  Then I had to weight again, no symmetry again.  Final on to what I inted to do was show in a video the process to use the sculpting tools to create a pose morph, only way to do this is to use the correctional deformer, drag it into the target of the morph thats a very simply version of it, but it didnt go right anyway as the mesh flipped around as for some reason it remembered at one point it was facing the other way around, thought freezing the mesh suppose to sort that.

     

    Anyways,  my time has gone, so going to have to come back to this another time.  The whole point is having a correctional morph to be driven by the rotation of a joint, to do this with clamps in place so the morph dont go beyond its range.  I m going to have to come back to this another time.

     

    Thanks Dan

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    Sorry to keep this thread going. But I find this to be a very intriguing topic, having done several character rigs at this point, and also having dug a little bit into expresso. This is starting to look like a very promising solution to a lot of the compromises that I've had to live with when creating character rigs.

    ultimately it's not a complicated expresso design. you could just use a range mapper to make the output of joint rotation serve as the input for the pose morph percentage. (I could see doing facial controllers this way.) But Rectro is certainly right about it taking a ton of time to set up. You would just have to do it individually for each joint you wanted to correct. Not really a way to copy the setup from one joint/posemorph relationship to another. aside from having to actually make each "pose," the rotation high value and low value for the rangemapper will be different for each joint you want to do. (fingers would take forever.)

    two things to pay attention to are whether global rotation or local is the parameter to use as the pose morph driver. I imagine in most cases it will be local. But maybe not always.  Also isolating the desired effect to a single axis of rotation for the joint I think would be simpler than trying to get all three axis to affect the pose. Not that it couldn't be done, but It just complicates it a little bit more.

     

    Again sorry to keep this one going, but I'm excited because I think incorporating posemorphs as expressions into the rig is going to add a huge level of detail to the animation.

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  • Hi Alec, dont be sorry for keeping the thred going, I had posted this issue In April  without reply so glad to see some interest.

    With help from AelHofy iv got the Espresso setup, not only to control the morph, but to control the auto rotation of the clavicle, which is what happends in real life.

    Issues iv found are that you must apply the expresso from the joint, not the controller so that when using IK it still works, kind of, however, the morph jumps into place does not smoothly transition into full strength, but works smoothly for FK. Selecting joints is not easy when you have to look thrugh a whole list of joints.  Second issue is time, it takes way too long to setup one single shoulder on one single axis.  You then have to do the same for front raise, and for the legs to.  Now because the shoulder has a such a wide range using rotation to control morphs is not ideal, it needs to be controlled via position or not rotation, that way your get a better blend. Next problem is the range mapper clamp does not work, its broken, so you have to manually add more nodes to get around this. Also there is a problem with just creating the pose morphs, as the sculpting tools dont work with the pose morph.  You have to use a Correction deformer to sculpt, then apply that to the pose morph, and it must be done all in the right order.  In MODO a rotational JCM is done automated like in Maya.  MAXON seriously need to get on this as this problem goes back years.  If your making cartoon characters you can get away without this, but real human figures not a chance.

     

    Need more people to contact MAXON, I have a few times on this, and was hoping for a solution in r18.

     

    Dan

    range mapper.jpg

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