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Joint Driven morphs help please?

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    Hi Alec, dont be sorry for keeping the thred going, I had posted this issue In April  without reply so glad to see some interest.

    With help from AelHofy iv got the Espresso setup, not only to control the morph, but to control the auto rotation of the clavicle, which is what happends in real life.

    Issues iv found are that you must apply the expresso from the joint, not the controller so that when using IK it still works, kind of, however, the morph jumps into place does not smoothly transition into full strength, but works smoothly for FK. Selecting joints is not easy when you have to look thrugh a whole list of joints.  Second issue is time, it takes way too long to setup one single shoulder on one single axis.  You then have to do the same for front raise, and for the legs to.  Now because the shoulder has a such a wide range using rotation to control morphs is not ideal, it needs to be controlled via position or not rotation, that way your get a better blend. Next problem is the range mapper clamp does not work, its broken, so you have to manually add more nodes to get around this. Also there is a problem with just creating the pose morphs, as the sculpting tools dont work with the pose morph.  You have to use a Correction deformer to sculpt, then apply that to the pose morph, and it must be done all in the right order.  In MODO a rotational JCM is done automated like in Maya.  MAXON seriously need to get on this as this problem goes back years.  If your making cartoon characters you can get away without this, but real human figures not a chance.

     

    Need more people to contact MAXON, I have a few times on this, and was hoping for a solution in r18.

     

    Dan

    range mapper.jpg

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    Nice job on the rig.

    You might be able to use the spline curve edtior in the range mapper to acheive  a more gradual transition in and out.

    it jumping into position with the IK I think is a priority issue. I noticed when I tried to undo a rotation, I had to refresh to get the posemorph to go back to zero. Placing the mesh with the posemorph on it above the rig in the hierarchy seemed to fix it for me. at least the posemorph felt more "Realtime" anyway.

    there's a whole lot of things to keep in mind with this process and so many different factors that change depending on what you're trying to do with it. (using sculpting makes it even tougher. I highly recommend baking the sculpt down into a texture.) I wish you good luck with it. Be patient... and persistent... I'll definitely be trying this with my rigs when I get more time.

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    Thanks the rig is one provided as part of C4D Studio character tool.  The mesh is somthing I just quickly sculpted for this test, no proper topo, just a test dummy.  Priority makes sense.  The sculpt is just for pose morph, not sure what you mean baked into texture, thats for displacement map right?

     

    Dan

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    I just saw your XPresso setting and you should be aware that the rotation value L_BD_NB_Shoulder_int is delivered in Radian. I don't know how your Range Mapper is set up, but if you expect an input value in Degree, you should insert a Degree module between the rotation output and the Clamp. I had this problem yesterday. Radian values are so low that you do not see any effect, if you expect Degree values.

    You can add a Result module to see the values in your XPresso chain.

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    Displacement or normal map yes.

    I'm saying I would only use pose morph affect the vertices of the basemesh instead of a sculpting tag. I know that you can animate  sculpting with the posemorph, but it seems counterintuitive because of the highpoly density needed for sculpting. And if you you not using a high poly density with the sculpt, you just want to affect the base mesh, then there's no need to involve sculpting in that part of the process.

    essentially I'm saying posemorphing the basemesh vertices, automating that to the joint rotation or position with expresso, and if you want the details of a sculpted mesh, that's a separate process that gets applied through the texture so that it doesn't mess with the animation.

    It's just my two cents, but I don't see sculpting animations working when the verticies and faces of the underlying basemesh are also moving and changing.

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    22 minutes ago, Alec said:

    Displacement or normal map yes.

    I'm saying I would only use pose morph affect the vertices of the basemesh instead of a sculpting tag. I know that you can animate  sculpting with the posemorph, but it seems counterintuitive because of the highpoly density needed for sculpting. And if you you not using a high poly density with the sculpt, you just want to affect the base mesh, then there's no need to involve sculpting in that part of the process.

    essentially I'm saying posemorphing the basemesh vertices, automating that to the joint rotation or position with expresso, and if you want the details of a sculpted mesh, that's a separate process that gets applied through the texture so that it doesn't mess with the animation.

    It's just my two cents, but I don't see sculpting animations working when the verticies and faces of the underlying basemesh are also moving and changing.

    Im not using a sculpting tag, im just using the sculpting tools to create the pose morph.  The type of sculpting im doing for the pose morph is base mesh level, not high res detail sculpting.  I do my sculpting in Zbrush for displacement maps.

     

    In MODO I have a workflow which I move the arm to its extreme pose limit, send that pose over into Zbrush, sculpt the shoulder correction, then send it back, and store them changes into a morph map which in MODO automatically gets assigned to to the morph map, and joint control.

     

    Dan

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    Okay I see, you're just using the brushes. You can do that to the directly to the basemesh without s sculpting tag? I did not know.

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    1 minute ago, Alec said:

    Okay I see, you're just using the brushes. You can do that to the directly to the basemesh without s sculpting tag? I did not know.

    Yes but only if you add a Correction deformer,, and do the sculpting to that, then turn off the Skin thats holding the pose, then the correction deformer.  Then in the Pose morph drag the correction defomer into the Target field, then select clear.  The Correction Deformer is now transferred to the Pose morph and you can now delete it.  This way you can use the sculpting brushes to sculpt your pose morph.

     

    Dan

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    Okay that makes a lot more sense. Once again I assumed the wrong thing. Sorry about that.

    I agree that MAXON needs to improve the sculpting integration so that you can make direct changes to the mesh if you want to.

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