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Cycles for C4D

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I am sure when Cycles4D (wrote it without hesitation, simply looks great as name :-)) become a reality, we will get as good as help as in XParticles and bunch off tutorials and examples...

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I've been playing with Blender a bit today (for other reasons beyond messing with Cycles) and it appears (to my surprise) this app does not have a parametric capability that ties to its "primitive mesh" system. No mention in documentation or online searches either. Is this really the case? No parametric editing? I thought this was a universal feature among the main 3D editors these days. 

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Guest DamienP
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    In those test shots, I noticed that you were rendering on the CPU. However there was a little down arrow, is it safe to assume the GPU will be supported in the view port and available to render?

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    Cycles on OpenCL lags behind CUDA for features.

    Hopefully there's enough fidelity to test renders using the GPU on OS X that's all I'll require as I'll continue to render via CPU on the Mac Pro farm.

     

    This page offers a comparison of available features on CPU, CUDA and OpenCL.

    Feature CPU CUDA (NVIDIA GPU) OpenCL (AMD GPU)
    Basic Shading
    Transparent Shadows
    Motion Blur
    Hair
    Volume
    Smoke / Fire
    Subsurface Scattering
    Open Shading Language
    CMJ sampling
    Branched Path integrator
    Displacement / Subdivision ✔ (experimental) ✔ (experimental) ✔ (experimental)
     

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    *hangs head in despair*

    Just when I thought the OS X / OpenCL nightmare was passing. Should've guessed this would be the case.

    Hopefully the CPU performance is top-notch. With so many features missing from the OpenCL side (and something I doubt Insydium can fix by themselves), not much reason to consider using that method.

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    On 2016-08-10 at 5:28 PM, Zmotive said:

    I've been playing with Blender a bit today (for other reasons beyond messing with Cycles) and it appears (to my surprise) this app does not have a parametric capability that ties to its "primitive mesh" system. No mention in documentation or online searches either. Is this really the case? No parametric editing? I thought this was a universal feature among the main 3D editors these days. 

    For what it is worth, back when I did my modeling in Cinema4d, 99% of the time I hit the shortcut key to convert to a mesh after adding an object. For polygonal modeling it is not very useful. A  non-destructive modifier stack is more valuable, in my opinion, and Blender does offer that. Text is also non-destructive and parametric.

    Lightwave's and Modo's base objects aren't parametric either, as far as I am aware.

     

    Each application has its strengths and missing features. Give and take.

     

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    9 hours ago, Zmotive said:

    *hangs head in despair*

    Just when I thought the OS X / OpenCL nightmare was passing. Should've guessed this would be the case.

    Hopefully the CPU performance is top-notch. With so many features missing from the OpenCL side (and something I doubt Insydium can fix by themselves), not much reason to consider using that method.

    It's not good is it?

    I'm trying to decide how we go forward and the OpenCL Mac situation complicates things. We have VRay, love it and renders quickly on the CPU based render farm but there's no doubt rendering is heading to the GPU especially for projects the size we're now concentrating on i.e reasonably small. So I don't know whether to go eGPU with my Mac or build a custom PC to replace our render farm.

    It'll be interesting to benchmark VRay up against Cycles in the typical scene types we work on before making a decision.

    The other thing that complicates the decision is that Zync is coming to VRayForC4D which is affordable and likely better for our needs than investing in more hardware.

    There is a bewildering amount of choice for rendering now...

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    8 hours ago, hvanderwegen said:

    For what it is worth, back when I did my modeling in Cinema4d, 99% of the time I hit the shortcut key to convert to a mesh after adding an object. For polygonal modeling it is not very useful. A  non-destructive modifier stack is more valuable, in my opinion, and Blender does offer that. Text is also non-destructive and parametric.

    Lightwave's and Modo's base objects aren't parametric either, as far as I am aware.

     

    Each application has its strengths and missing features. Give and take.

     

     

    Valid points on the modifier stack and typical modeling habits that people have. Even in motion graphics your point stands, not just hard-core modeling.  But the idea that you can add a primitive to a Blender scene and change the polygon density / overall detail prior to confirming the initial state of the primitive, but then can't go back a couple steps later and say "Whoa I had too many / not enough polygons to start with there, let me go back and adjust that before converting and duplicating", is a annoying limitation. You have to clear the mesh and recreate the primitive with different values until you get what you like.

    Re Modo and Lightwave, no idea about the latter (never used it) but are you sure on the former? I thought Modo did have parametrics. Been a long time since I've used it though; I could be experiencing a memory error.

    Definitely a game of tradeoffs when developing these apps though, that's a truth. And another truth is if you use one app for a long time you begin to think of that as "the right way", so there's some bias on my part, being that I so far have not dabbled much in other editors. Although I've seen enough cool stuff in Blender that I will continue to experiment with it periodically to build my skills there. Not a bad idea to have another powerful tool in the arsenal, especially if it's free.

     

    3 hours ago, Cutman said:

    It's not good is it?

    I'm trying to decide how we go forward and the OpenCL Mac situation complicates things. We have VRay, love it and renders quickly on the CPU based render farm but there's no doubt rendering is heading to the GPU especially for projects the size we're now concentrating on i.e reasonably small. So I don't know whether to go eGPU with my Mac or build a custom PC to replace our render farm.

    It'll be interesting to benchmark VRay up against Cycles in the typical scene types we work on before making a decision.

    The other thing that complicates the decision is that Zync is coming to VRayForC4D which is affordable and likely better for our needs than investing in more hardware.

    There is a bewildering amount of choice for rendering now...

    Nope, definitely not good for people stuck with AMD GPUs. And as far as I can tell in Cycles the render option chosen impacts both the viewport and the final render. When you choose Cycles the viewport content changes / reflects the new render method. I don't think it's like C4D where everything in the viewport is GL-based (or GL- / MESA-based for R18), no matter what other features and settings are being used in other contexts. 

    The ZYNC thing does look pretty slick on the final render side. Although I'm waiting for our Google overlords to take over everything one day.  I too have  been on the brink of going PC vs. waiting out a TB3 "pro Mac" + officially supported eGPU chassis. But there's been enough "wait and see" with MAXON, Otoy, Chaos, and Apple this summer that I'm hanging on a bit longer to see what ecosystem options I can reasonably piece together for next year and at what financial and opportunity costs.

    Cycles for C4D is another "wait-and-see" recently added to the mix — a nice surprise though. Some things I'd like to see addressed in their newsletter this fall:

    • General timeframe for release ("first / second half of 20___" is all I'm curious about, don't expect a specific target this early)

    • What the plan is for OpenCL / AMD support, if they're just taking what Blender.org provides / not modifying that support.

    • Confirm that the Cycles Live Render will operate completely independent of whatever is going on in the  R18 GL viewport or MESA viewport (if you're stuck on an AMD Mac). I can envision a scenario where if Cycles is relying on the CPU (because you have said Mac) and some element of Cycles' live viewport taps into the C4D display architecture, which would also then be using the CPU for MESA, you end up with performance hits. Maybe not / just speculation.

     

    In the end the only scenario where Mac users have a bewildering choice of rendering tech is if they've already bought or built up a rig that has a CUDA card in it. Damnit, Apple.

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    16 hours ago, Zmotive said:

    In the end the only scenario where Mac users have a bewildering choice of rendering tech is if they've already bought or built up a rig that has a CUDA card in it. Damnit, Apple.

    The nMP could've been awesome if Apple hadn't screwed up OpenCL drivers and compiler and then got disinterested and just when developers are using it make a 90 degree turn and go down the Metal Compute route. It just asks too much of developers to keep trying to keep up with a moving target.

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    Yes it does.

    Apple has done nothing but cause problems (instead of using their resources to solve them) in the Khronos space. GL, CL, you name it. They made a big noise when they adopted it, ran up against a hard problem or two sometime later, then quit. I also came to understand that the developer resources they provided were substandard compared to what Nvidia provided for CUDA developers. And then Apple switched APIs again. Naturally, one of their proprietary APIs that no one else on the planet is going to use for PCs or Linux or whatever.

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