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Rectro

Vray Render tests for Skin and translucent surfaces

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@Rectro

Thanks for the reply. Still working out with the bumps for the skin.
But generally how do you create the bumps (not the wrinkles  but I guess the pores or something like that). I sculpted with the default pores brush from the content browser but it doesn't really look good or i'm using the brush wrong. 

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Also, is it safe to say that when you manually painted a skin map of your head, YOU DON'T NEED TO MIND THE COLOR OF THE OVERALL COLOR, SUBSURFACE COLOR AND SCATTER COLOR. 

What I meant is the manually painted map OVERRIDES all the existing color?

Also, about hierarchy of the colors.
Is it safe to say that the overall color has the ORIGINAL MANUALLY PAINTED MAP.
The SUBSURFACE COLOR has the DARKER MANUALLY PAINTED MAP.
The SCATTER COLOR  is the REDER MANUALLY PAINTED MAP?

About the diffuse color, it's only use is to cancel out the SSS right? I mean if you put it to 100% it's like there is no SSS in effect? 

P.S. This SSS Skin is really killing me. Hahahaha

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  • 4 hours ago, bentraje said:

    @Rectro

    Thanks for the reply. Still working out with the bumps for the skin.
    But generally how do you create the bumps (not the wrinkles  but I guess the pores or something like that). I sculpted with the default pores brush from the content browser but it doesn't really look good or i'm using the brush wrong. 

    As of yet of yet I havent used C4D for that kind of sculpting, I use default brush in Zbrush, and a alpha that has slight blurred spots with a spray stroke, Im not sure C4D has the ability to use a alpha and a spray type nozzle?   For the ultimate best skin detail it should come from the colour maps but bringing it into photoshop and using methods to enhance, and bring the details out saved into a bump map.  For creases, again Zbrush has some ideal brushes that cut and pinch at the same time.

     

    Dan 

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  • 4 hours ago, bentraje said:

    Also, is it safe to say that when you manually painted a skin map of your head, YOU DON'T NEED TO MIND THE COLOR OF THE OVERALL COLOR, SUBSURFACE COLOR AND SCATTER COLOR. 

    What I meant is the manually painted map OVERRIDES all the existing color?

    Also, about hierarchy of the colors.
    Is it safe to say that the overall color has the ORIGINAL MANUALLY PAINTED MAP.
    The SUBSURFACE COLOR has the DARKER MANUALLY PAINTED MAP.
    The SCATTER COLOR  is the REDER MANUALLY PAINTED MAP?

    About the diffuse color, it's only use is to cancel out the SSS right? I mean if you put it to 100% it's like there is no SSS in effect? 

    P.S. This SSS Skin is really killing me. Hahahaha

    Il find the Infinite realities file, and give you that later on, your see how iv set that up.  The different colour maps depending on what SSS method you use willl have different outcome according to the overall skin tone.  Referring to the Fast SSS2 which is a simple set up, the overal colour bears the most importance, the other two layers dont override this overall colour which is your standard pink skin colour map.  The other two layers are for the colour of the SSS effect and hardly change the colour tone, where as the Skin material is totaly different.  The Skin materials layers are all fighting againts each other and you have to fine tune the amount, and radius/depth of each layer, and the only way to do that is with alpha control maps.  The case of the Skin material it takes ages to get something half decent, where as the Fast SSS2 not even close to the same time.

    The diffuse colour stops light penetrating so yes it holds back the SSS effect which can be nice to give a bit of contrast back.  To note if your model is not real world scale, you should use the scale parameter, not try to adjust all the other settings as your have a battle on your hands.

    Skin as you know is not easy to set up as there are too many factors to take into account, its a ballancing act, but that can be easier if you eliminate some things right at the beginning which is proper lighting, proper scale, high quality model, and very high quality maps.  Use the Vray Powershader or advbitmap loader to your texture maps into, this let you tweak the values.  If Vray had a reliable IPR for skin, then it would make the world of difference getting instant feedback.

     

    Dan

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    3 hours ago, Rectro said:

    As of yet of yet I havent used C4D for that kind of sculpting, I use default brush in Zbrush, and a alpha that has slight blurred spots with a spray stroke, Im not sure C4D has the ability to use a alpha and a spray type nozzle?   For the ultimate best skin detail it should come from the colour maps but bringing it into photoshop and using methods to enhance, and bring the details out saved into a bump map.  For creases, again Zbrush has some ideal brushes that cut and pinch at the same time.

     

    Dan 


    Yes, the it has the ability to use alpha. I'm not sure about the spray type nozzle though. I'll try it again next time I get the time and see how the alpha works. Basically, the "pores brush" is based on an alpha image. 

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    3 hours ago, Rectro said:

    Il find the Infinite realities file, and give you that later on, your see how iv set that up.  The different colour maps depending on what SSS method you use willl have different outcome according to the overall skin tone.  Referring to the Fast SSS2 which is a simple set up, the overal colour bears the most importance, the other two layers dont override this overall colour which is your standard pink skin colour map.  The other two layers are for the colour of the SSS effect and hardly change the colour tone, where as the Skin material is totaly different.  The Skin materials layers are all fighting againts each other and you have to fine tune the amount, and radius/depth of each layer, and the only way to do that is with alpha control maps.  The case of the Skin material it takes ages to get something half decent, where as the Fast SSS2 not even close to the same time.

    The diffuse colour stops light penetrating so yes it holds back the SSS effect which can be nice to give a bit of contrast back.  To note if your model is not real world scale, you should use the scale parameter, not try to adjust all the other settings as your have a battle on your hands.

    Skin as you know is not easy to set up as there are too many factors to take into account, its a ballancing act, but that can be easier if you eliminate some things right at the beginning which is proper lighting, proper scale, high quality model, and very high quality maps.  Use the Vray Powershader or advbitmap loader to your texture maps into, this let you tweak the values.  If Vray had a reliable IPR for skin, then it would make the world of difference getting instant feedback.

     

    Dan


    "overal colour bears the most importance". Thanks for the heads up. I actually leave it as it is. I mean I don't put the image map to it. I only put the image map on the sub surface and scatter channels.

    "The diffuse colour stops light penetrating so yes it holds back the SSS effect which can be nice to give a bit of contrast back." 
    Thanks for confirming that. 

    "To note if your model is not real world scale, you should use the scale parameter,"
    I think my model is in real world scale. I modeled it along side a full-sized body to keep my scale in check. 

    Oh by the way, is  there like a rough rule for skin shader's scatter radius? For instance, a 40cm wide head should have a 10% scatter radius (or 4cm).

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  • 59 minutes ago, bentraje said:


    "overal colour bears the most importance". Thanks for the heads up. I actually leave it as it is. I mean I don't put the image map to it. I only put the image map on the sub surface and scatter channels.

    "The diffuse colour stops light penetrating so yes it holds back the SSS effect which can be nice to give a bit of contrast back." 
    Thanks for confirming that. 

    "To note if your model is not real world scale, you should use the scale parameter,"
    I think my model is in real world scale. I modeled it along side a full-sized body to keep my scale in check. 

    Oh by the way, is  there like a rough rule for skin shader's scatter radius? For instance, a 40cm wide head should have a 10% scatter radius (or 4cm).

    You should put a diffuse colour map in overall colour for fast sss,  this gets the tones of the face  such as lips,  general tones. . The yellow and red layers offer the other tones that give off the soft translucent feel,  and back scatter colour such as the ears. . The radius settings that are there are set according to real world papers,  I m sure these figures are online. . Generally speaking each layer has more radius that the last from top dermal,  epidermis to sub dermis as the deepest radius because the light must penetrate deeper to the blood layer. 

     

    Dan 

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